A Saudi judge in Jeddah has again given the world a taste of law under the country’s medieval Sharia system. A 23-year-old pregnant woman who complained about being gang raped has been found guilty of adultery (even though she is not married) and ordered that she serve one year in jail and receive 100 lashes.
The woman said that she accepted a ride from a man who took her to a house in Jeddah where she was gang rape by him and his four friends all night. In an act of mercy, the Saudis will allow her to have the baby first and then flog her.
The woman’s “crime” was revealed at the hospital when she sought an abortion.
Saudi Arabia has repeatedly punished rape victims under Sharia law, here and here..
In a fascinating interview, one reporters explored the view of some Saudi men that it is perfectly appropriate to rape a woman traveling alone or with a non-family member.
Rape victims have been stoned to death or jailed in other countries following Sharia.
Even in more modern nations like Turkey, rape victims can face “honor killings” by family members.
For the full story, click here.
blah blah blah
You miss a lot of things, Clint.
“I’ve proven your literalist interpretation of the Bible is based on a lie.”
I must have missed that rebuttal between all of your emotionally-charged insults.
If you want to believe that “hell” doesn’t mean hell and “no one comes to the Father except through me” doesn’t mean what it explicitly says…then go on Buddha. You may make me look foolish or ignorant but you will not stop me from desiring the best for you.
Bron98,
Thanks for the sincere question.
There are plenty of nice people in the world. But the Bible says that “none is righteous, no, not one. No one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
When God looks down at the world, He sees no good people. It says in the Bible that “for our sake [God] made [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin; so that in [Jesus] we might become the righteousness of God.
God punished Jesus for my evil and treats me as though I lived His perfect life. He does the same for all who trust in that.
If I believe that and love others, I would not hesitate to tell people though it be offensive.
That clear enough for you, sport? I have to deal with enough of your kind of bullshit within my own family and quite frankly your persistent denials and assumption of the delusion of moral superiority based on a fairy tale are nearing the limits of my patience. Unlike the preacher I quoted above, it’s not my job to babysit mental defectives. I’d have gone into psychiatry if that’s what I wanted to do. My job is to minimize the damage your kind of poisonous thought does to the species. There are a certain percentage of people on the edge of falling into the fundamentalist pit that are not immune to evidence and reason. Hopefully they have been steered to a less damaging form of Christianity or to seek another path to the nature of God inside them that doesn’t require them to act like a smug unthinking thug for Jesus. You gave up free will so you could feel special. Free will is the singular greatest gift given to man under most religious traditions. Jesus will be real impressed when he returns to find you didn’t find the nature of the Heavenly Father within you by self-examination and reflection, but because some charlatan in a nice suit told you if you took his exclusionary belief in toto, no matter how conflicted or historically inaccurate, that you’d be “special” and “saved”. All you have done is limit your ability to see the divine in others because they are “different” because you are blinded by your own ego. You had help going blind, but you put those fingers in your own eyes in the end. I’ve proven your literalist interpretation of the Bible is based on a lie. Whereas you have only proven how deeply brainwashed you are. Nothing based in a lie ever comes to any good. I don’t hold it against you though. All men are created equal, even the ones with ridiculous beliefs, but they are not created with equal ability to reason or not be taken in by hucksters. You’ve shown that. To your credit, you appeared to be trying, you’re just not succeeding. My beef is with those who willingly and often knowingly led you down a path that’s unhealthy for society and a huge disservice to the millions of Christians before you just as it is a huge disservice to all people of conscience trying to bring the world together instead of driving it apart by dividing everyone into the categories of “saved” and “sinner”. You’ve proven you don’t know what “saved” actually means, so by default, your definition of “sinner” is equally faulty. So you go right on thinking I’m a sinner and not deserving of God’s love because I won’t tow your ego specific theological line. And I’ll just keep laughing at you.
I understand your translation of the “parables”. You are right, I have not proven anything. If I had, you would still not believe. I only sought to understand why you consider Jesus a good teacher and not recognize his teachings–which at times are very explicit and not metaphorical. I understand now. His teachings will never run counter to your worldview regardless of what he says.
Here’s one last parable:
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
Maybe the word “fundamentalist” was derived from this parable. May the God of Jesus have mercy on both of us. Thanks for the dialogue.
Clint:
why do you want to convert everyone? As somone who does believe in a creator although not in the way you believe, isnt it just plainly and simply up to the individual?
I think that Jesus died for everyone, not just Christians he put it out there, not because he wanted Christians to have sole access or for people to convert to Christianity but for the entire human race. I have Hindu friends and they are kind and good people. Are they denied a place?
How about this – since you didn’t understand the last parable I translated or Jesus’ own words about the use of parable.
I’ll worry about my relationship with God and you worry about yours. You have nothing to fear from my relationship with God and I have nothing to fear from yours. Nothing to fear does not mean I’ll accept you trying to cram your ridiculous beliefs down my throat by force.
So go on, go crow to your fundie buddies about how you “bested” the heathens, despite not having proven a thing. It’s the fundamentalist MO – DENIAL. I’ve seen it a thousand times and you turned out just as I expected. You live a delusional life thinking you’re special if you like. In the end, you are helping to destroy society with your exclusionary nonsense and you aren’t doing yourself any favors by hiding from reality.
No, I still think you’re marginally psychotic and terrible at proving your points.
Buddha,
So you agree with me finally and are ready to trust in Christ to save you from your sin? I feel that your words are implicitly saying that the Bible is true and you have been wrong for so many years.
Or, should I take your words at face value? It is the intended meaning of Jesus we should seek, not our personal translation.
Mespo,
Very good. This is why I like dialogues like this. I never connected that verse with my dialogue with Buddha. I appreciate the correction but it doesn’t change the fact that parables illustrated his explicit teachings–though the meanings were hidden to the crowds at the time.
Take for instance, this conversation with the religious leaders:
“Destroy this temple, and in three days a I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.”
————
Note that he told a parable-I’ll raise this temple up in three days
The meaning was hidden- they thought he was talking about the temple in Jerusalem.
It illustrated his teaching that he would die and resurrect- When he rose from the dead, his disciples remembered this saying.
———–
There was a specific, intended meaning. He spoke with purpose and clarity to those open to truth. He did not give us self-esteem proverbs to twist for our own purposes.
————
Thanks Mespo, you keep me on my toes. What do you think of the historical reliability of the resurrection of Christ. No real scholar can deny that thousands of people at least thought that Christ had risen three days after he died. What does Mespo say?
mespo,
Nice quote. I’ll have to remember that one.
Clint:
“Jesus taught in parables to illustrate his explicit teachings–not to give us mystical philanthropic sayings to mix with our own worldviews.”
****************
Sorry to chime in on your dialogue with Buddha, but this statement is literally wrong according to the Jesus of the Magic Book.
“The knowledge of the secrets of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. This is why I speak to them in parables, ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand’” (Mat. 13:11,13).
Parable.
Acting evil will destroy you. Since God is within you, it is therefore you destroying yourself. You have nothing to fear from others regarding your relationship with God, only yourself. The only thing to fear isn’t just fear itself, but your own lack of understanding of the nature of God within you.
If I was proving that “my religion is right and yours is wrong” then I’d focus more on logic–if possible. But, my emphasis is more on your understanding of Jesus–if you claim that He is a “good teacher” then you also must accept his “good teachings.” I’ve quoted Jesus’ explicit words and you have crafted them into mystical, unknowable sayings. It is far better to reject His sayings completely than to distort them for personal convenience.
Jesus speaks of accepting His words:
Jesus: “For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels?”
Jesus also spoke of “fear” and “hell”:
“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him (God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
Would you consider these parables also? If so, please explain the metaphorical meaning that He is intending.
Oh, you’re welcome. But let’s be clear.
For the record, I haven’t side stepped jack shit, sport.
Imagine what you like. Imagination and fantasy are what you seem to be good at. I’ve addressed your points, you persist in your “belief”, I told you the heavy lifting would be yours but you are clearly not interested in learning, so why should I bother? Again, your rigid thinking not only did you a disservice, it misinformed you about your “argument” and it’s effectiveness.
You believe Jesus is THE son of God and I provided evidence in His own words to back that he was A son of God despite holding out Himself as an exemplar and the use of parable and stating the the Heavenly Father was the one deserving worship, not the man Jesus. Jesus, as a man, knew he was unimportant in himself but important as an example – or do you think a man attributed with miraculous powers would allow himself to be crucified, Invisible Sky Dad’s orders or not? Before you answer “God told him to” I’ll point out that is your DOGMATIC BELIEF, NOT FACT. AGAIN, YOUR BELIEF DOES NOT MAKE FACT. Your ignorance and resistance to historical fact, logic and established theology is of only tangential concern. You present no fact, only misinterpreted scripture quotes – a danger and known historical abuse of the very book you “believe” is the literal word of God (despite the FACT that IT ISN’T). You have addressed NONE of my points with anything other than dogma. Rote repeating of “JESUS IS LORD!” equivalents. You are falling to some of the very errors I pointed out. I am a sign, but you walk your road. If it leads to a dead end, that was YOUR choice. Dead ends are often the easy paths. Free will is a gift. Waste it as you like, but your attempts to force your fantasy (and that is what it is, fantasy) upon others is small minded and rooted in your ego’s need to feel special. Far from disproving me, your further floundering with ineffective counter-arguments and resort to the ad homeniem (caged bear? please, your ego is showing) is only proving my point that YOUR ego is what you are servicing, not logic and fact. Like many subjects, you are probably too close to the problem to see it. You clearly lack an ability for abstraction. Your analysis is proven sub-standard, therefore, your opinion is moot unless you bring better and more persuasive analysis. Again, if your goal is conversion, you have as poor target selection as you do argument skills. How long did you read here before speaking? Did you actually think that tactic of hanging your lynch pins off Fundamentalist dogma would work? If so, that alone speaks volumes.
Bears aren’t tricked by dogma. They chew it up and spit it out like the poison meat it is. Maybe I should leave you to read past examples of what happens when someone pokes the bear. The evidence speaks for itself.
But in the sake of clarity, you have proven nothing and I have avoided nothing. The side-steps here are in your dance, sport, not mine. If I’m the bear, you’re not fighting, you’re dancing. I’ll let the readers judge who is most persuasive, because clearly, your judgment – a skill rooted in logic and ethics that is teachable – is impaired by your “belief”.
So unless you have better than “is so, is not” Fundamentalist dogma, you should listen instead of speaking or at least have the sense and good graces to walk away disappointed at not adding another unwilling person to your roles of “special people”. No one is special. NO ONE. Not you, not me, not the President, NO ONE. That’s an ego induced delusion, that feeling of “specialness”. Maybe it’s as my grandfather always taught that God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason, didn’t He? And it wasn’t to be a dogmatic contrarian. It was so you could listen more than you speak . . . and stereoscopic hearing is a survival trait for orientating predators but since science is usually out for your type, I’ll leave that as a lagniappe.
So bring the heat or ride the pine, but right now, you’re objectively losing the argument and losing badly. I’m sure you don’t “believe” that, but past pointing you to the evidence, I, unlike you, am uninterested in using force to change your mind. I didn’t force Bron to change his mind on certain topics, if you want an example, he did all that work on his own. And make no mistake, reliance on dogma is reliance on coercion. Dogma is rooted in the threat of “Do as I say or go to Hell”. A tool to service the ego’s of church officials. You are a fine example of coercion breeds coercion just like child abusers breed more child abusers. You’ve been fed a steady diet of it and it’s all you can apparently serve.
Persuade me you are right if I am so wrong. Use logic and fact against me. You know, REASON.
Force and threat, especially based on the intangible like “belief” or the concept of “Hell”, don’t work with me. Fear is something I have little of by nature, but I certainly don’t fear your arguments any more than I fear your myopic and conflicted view of God or any more than I fear your dogmatic responses. Which is “not at all” in case you didn’t catch that.
So side-step away, handsome, but you should look to see who is really dancing before you get off the wall to accuse someone of stealing your move. I’m probably a poor poor choice in dance partners. I don’t side step like that. You’re dancing. This bear doesn’t dance. This bear plays judo. That is not an ego based statement (I’m not too “good” to dance with you), but an evidentiary statement based on past performance.
In short, you should step up or step off, because right now your dance moves are looking like a bunch of drunk Germans doing The Chicken Dance at a wedding reception. No offense to drunken Chicken Dancing Germans. So persuade me using the proper tools, or don’t bother. It’ll only make you look worse.
Buddha,
The obvious sidestep and slight prejudiced comment from a philosopher such as yourself give me the mental image of a caged deer. Thanks for the dialogue.
blah blah blah Clint.
Good to see you are a Texan to the bone.
Buddha,
Jesus taught in parables to illustrate his explicit teachings–not to give us mystical philanthropic sayings to mix with our own worldviews. Jesus did not come to this world to be another Confucius. He came to be slaughtered for the sins of idiots like me…and philosophers like you–and to teach us to trust in Him as sufficient to rescue.
I don’t claim to be superior to your religion, but I do claim that the person of Jesus, as described in Scripture, is superior to all things. That’s pretty offensive. At least it was to me.
CCD,
If your “wild guess” was derived from the “About Me” section of my website, then I’d say that it wasn’t that wild at all.
I can now smell the Saudi fear. This is indeed a lovely present.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7890211.stm
Clint
Wild guess but are you from Texas?