Various news sites are reporting that a Christian man, Ishtiaq Masih, was beaten to death in Pakistan’s Punjab province for buying a cup of tea in a Muslim-only tea stall.
The owner is a Mubarak Ali, 42, who put up a sign in Machharkay village saying that non-Muslims had to identify themselves when approaching the stall. When Masih’s cross was noticed around his neck, the owner called on people to attack him. Here is how the International Christian Concern (ICC) described it: “When Ishtiaq went to pay for his tea, the owner noticed that he was wearing a necklace with a cross and grabbed him, calling for his employees to bring anything available to beat him for violating a sign posted on the stall warning non-Muslims to declare their religion before being served. . . The owner and 14 of his employees beat Ishtiaq with stones, iron rods and clubs, and stabbed him multiple times with kitchen knives as Ishtiaq pleaded for mercy.”
For the full story, click here.
Because without proof, you might as well be talking out of the end you should be sitting on.
SHOW THE FLAW. SHOW THE PROOF. SHOW YOUR WORK.
Or STFU.
See? I told you one of your options would be more nanny nanny boo boo, amateur.
And your a non-responsive troll looking to smear Islam without anything but YOUR cherry picked bullshit.
Run along, boy. Adults talk here.
BIL:
“Prove to me and the world that Islam is worse than any other religion. You know, reason and empirical evidence.”
Look around you boy, and what do you see? Do you deny the problems in most (not all) Islamic countries? Do you think this upheval is because Aramco drilled for oil in Saudi Arabia 60 years ago.
What do you do get your talking points from Minister Farakhan? Loopie Louie and his mother ship.
As long as the Mullahs in Iran and the Immams in Saudi Arabia hold sway over Islam, that religion will have problems.
Just look around the world and look at the countries that are in turmoil, most are Islamic.
At this current point in history Islam has problems and they need to be addressed. If you cant see that then you are blinded to reality and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.
And lastly I never said that Islam was worse than any other religion, I said there was some fundamental flaw that is causing all of this upheval.
Change the terrain and attack, is that your only strategy? Shift the arguement, try and push people off balance. Change the debate to racism, hell my 5 year old daughter could win that one.
So your real world example of the man that gave the robber $40 dollars and a loaf of bread carries sway, but my real world examples of human brutality dont? You are a cherry picker.
Yeah, that’s right. Come in with a assertion you won’t (and, duh, can’t) back up and then challenge me? No. Don’t think so. It’s time for you to put up or shut up, smart ass. Prove Islam is worse than any other religion or I’m just going to set your delusional self to “ignore”. So far, all you’ve proven is you’re a bigot in denial and an all hat no cattle bullshiter when it comes to argument skills in defense of your “point”. Evasion isn’t an answer. You’re the genius here. Answer the challenge to your assertion like man. Prove to me and the world that Islam is worse than any other religion. You know, reason and empirical evidence. You’re the one making the assertion. YOU prove it. I know for a fact you can’t, but I’m sure willing to laugh my ass off at you trying. Your parents need to ask the junior college for a refund, sport. So far you’re putting in a pitiful showing. What’s next? Obfuscation? Changing the subject? More evasion? Empty denials and answering with a question? A little more nanny nanny boo boo? Please, try to prove your point. Prove that that Islam is worse than any other religion. Otherwise, you’re just a pant load, junior.
BIL:
By the way interesting use of a link. Very insightful.
BIL:
“Prove it.”
How using Wikipedia or Huffington Post as support? Why don’t you try having some thoughts of your own. They may not be right but put them out there and have them analyzed and criticized. If you just quote Wikipedia and the Huffington Post how do you know what you think?
Enlightenment is only a synapse away.
Gyges:
The flaw as I see it may have something to do with evolutionary sociology pertaining to religious beliefs. For some reason Islam is stuck in the past, their treatment of women, admonitions against alcohol or certain books, sexual hangups, etc. (although you can say that certain Christian sects are hung up on these to but they don’t seem to have the level of fervor, probably because they are tempered by our more liberal western values) seem archaic.
They are torn between mind and body, for example – on the one hand they like sex but degrade women. They are not integrated, they have a mind body dichotomy. They are afraid of life because much of life is off limits to them. The sins of this life prevent them from enjoying the fruits of eternity. It must be very disheartening to grow up in this type of civilization. Everything that is pleasurable is off limits and they punish themselves and live lives of self denial all in preparation for eternity. Personally I would be an angry individual.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31433631/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
And you still don’t have a specific to stand on.
As gyges has asked, what’s the fault? Not your generalizations that can be applied to any religion. Specific contextually presented evidence with quotes. As to Islam proper you say “It probably has to do with a disrespect for life on this earth.”
Prove it.
I don’t see proof of anything but your bias so far. The more you talk, the less you say. If it’s any consolation, I don’t think you’re a troll in the traditional sense. A bigot with limited self-perception perhaps, but an honest one. So prove Islam is worse than Christianity or Judaism. Prove as in proof –
proof – n.\ˈprüf\
a: the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact
b: the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning.
It’s a fool’s errand. Enjoy.
Buddha,
Please, I’m trying to have a conversation here. Go have fun with Sicilian, he’s a lost cause.
SI,
A couple of quick notes: What you’re describing is the effect not the cause, I’ve been trying to figure out what exactly it is that makes you say makes Islam fatally flawed. So far the only defect you’ve given is one that you admit is fairly common among some religions (and I strongly agree that it’s a flaw).
I don’t assume anything about you other than what you say. That’s why I asked if you read many scientific journals.
Back to the conversation:
I’ve made no excuses for fanatics of any religion. What I’ve consistently maintained (not in this conversation because I was more interested in your rationale than converting you to my way of thinking) is that fanaticism has nothing to do with any one religion, but is a general human condition. There are many reasons why a hierarchical society with a fear of “the outside” would give an evolutionary advantage. Sagan explores it pretty in depth in “The Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors,” (I know I recommend that book frequently, but it’s very good). Now that doesn’t excuse violence, or those who exploit that tendency to gain power (For an interesting take on how to avoid that I recommend reading “Island” by Huxley).
I think humanity is in a great position right now. We’re the only species (on earth) that can intentional affect it’s own evolution. We can do this by changing what behaviors our society rewards, but only if we realize that it’s not a matter of “we behave this way and THEY behave that way, so they’re bad” but of “humans all have these instincts, some of us are just in situations that help us submerge them.”
BIL:
“Doh! What’s this dusty old book? Why it’s “The Crusades”! And a book about Vlad Tepes – a fine, fine Christian warrior! Lest we forget the classics . . . “The Spanish Inquisition” by Tomas de Torquemada!”
Shall we discuss something that has happened in the last 100 years? Certainly there have been things done in the name of Christianity that are not good, I wont deny it. But I believe we are speaking of the current state of Islam. Not something that happened 600 to 1000 years ago.
Also go check your history, the Crusades were a reaction to Islamic incursions into Europe in the 7th, 8th, 9th centuries. Not the other way around.
Again change the terrain and attack, not too subtle but effective.
BIL:
I have no argument historically, all of those were bad actors/actions.
However Jews have been baited into some of those acts. The Palestinians are not blameless in their plight.
I have nowhere called Muslims filthy, those are your words not mine.
As far as bad actions and actors just turn on your TV and see nightly news stories of Muslim mischief.
Oh, that’s right. You can’t. Because he was killed for no good reason by a Christian for religious reasons, a man who left a note saying that Obama was created and controlled by Jews.
Yeah.
Doh! What’s this dusty old book? Why it’s “The Crusades”! And a book about Vlad Tepes – a fine, fine Christian warrior! Lest we forget the classics . . . “The Spanish Inquisition” by Tomas de Torquemada!
But those filthy Muslims better get their act together.
Uh huh.
Paging Dr. Tiller . . . Dr. Tiller . . .
“we dont see Christians or Jews running around killing people for no good reason on a regular basis.”
Oh really.
Timothy McVeigh (white supremest with Christian Identity ideology)
Northern Ireland (The Poster Child for Christian Charity, Compassion and Non-violence. Except for all the car bombs.)
The KKK (part of the Christian Identity movement, they still kill people you know)
The Nazis (a Christian organization among other things, led by a Catholic, snappy dressers)
Disproportionate civilian (as in non-combatant women and children) casualties in Gaza by the Israeli military.
Yeah those Christians and Jews sure have their act together compared to those filthy Muslims when it comes to violence and intolerance. You’ve convinced me in spite of the mountain of history that says otherwise. I capitulate. You’re a genius, sport.
Gyges:
First off I am not a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu or a member of any organized religion, I suppose I am a skeptical deist.
So I see a lot of turmoil in the Muslim world which I don’t see in the Judeo-Christian world and I make a value judgement based on what I see. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour wherever it comes from. Shouldn’t Muslims be held to the same standards of civilized behaviour that other religions are held to or do you and BIL practice the soft racism of low expectations? The kind that so many on the left practice, oh poor little Muslim man you cant help it. You have been oppressed by ____________ (you fill in the blank) and you are too ignorant and unsophisticated to know any better. So let wise, sophisticated, western man teach you a lesson on morals.
Their religion is currently having problems and they need to fix those problems or be shuned by the rest of the human family.
But most other religions are generally tolerant at least in public, we dont see Christians or Jews running around killing people for no good reason on a regular basis. And generally Christians and Jews have a fairly good respect for themselves and others.
We also dont see Christians and Jews stoning apostates to death. And Christians and Jews are fairly tolerant of other religions.
Muslims need to get their house in order and join the rest of the world.