There is an interesting controversy brewing over the current version of the health care bill in which Amish families are exempted from the mandatory coverage. Other groups may also receive exemptions.
For some Americans who do not want to pay for health insurance (but face a fine under the law), the exemptions are likely to trigger challenges. Why should an Amish person be allowed exemption, but not someone with political or philosophical opposition to the insurance?
The Amish do use medical facilities and regular doctors, but they pay in cash. They believe that such care is the primary responsibility of their church.
The question is why religious conscientious objectors are given exemptions but not secular conscientious objectors. There are plenty of people who have profound objections to this plan that are not religious based. Is it far to allow only faith-based objectors to get exemptions so that some Christians can apply but not Cato members?
Congress can probably prevail in such distinctions (much like conscientious objectors to the draft), but it raises in my view a legitimate question of fairness.
For the story, click here.
We just have to want to do it.
Unfortunately for most of us though the bar has to be lowered for the lowest common denominator.
You know who that is, right?
That’s the fat greedy little wretch who doesn’t want his tax dollars going to give no dirty indigents or lazy bums any free medical care.
Let em rot. Who cares if a bum dies on the street right?
Because they’re lazy.
It costs what it costs. We print the money. Didn’t you know that?
We printed enough to spend trillions fighting wars for oil in the middle east over the last 10 years.
And we’re printing more to fund this pathetic bill the republicans hobbled.
We can start with the trillion or two we’re throwing at the insurance companies in this bill. Then I’m sure once the people see their medicare cards in the mail we’ll find enough over the years to keep it going.
What will be the cost to expand Medicare? per year?
Where will that money come from?
Is your proposed Medicare expansion to be all at once or incrimental? Some details if you please would.
The simple fact is medicare is already in place.
And all we have to do is expand it. That means funding.
And so the right wing is out trying to convince people that its broken so we don’t fund it, even though what’s broken is it is underfunded.
Its the ole rope-a-dope.
And it works every time.
Pretty much.
What else do I need to respond to anecdotal evidence with?
Like I said I’m not the one trying to convince people that national health care doesn’t work in the EU or elsewhere.
That’s troll number ones job.
ThirtyPercenter (I apologize for not spelling out your whole name).
“I don’t believe I need to verify my own life experiences to anyone.”
My anectdotal evidence can beat up your anectdotal evidence.
“Many doctors and practices are dropping Medicare patients.” – Pinandpuller
This is another red herring being currently sold by the neoconservative right wing. The omitted part of that equation of course is the underfunding. The underfunding the republicans (and some democarts) vote for that lowers benefits to physicians and hence some drop them. Its amazing how good the republicans and their trolls have become at this sort of deception.
Simply vote to cut medicare funding and then say “See, its broken”.
Its a common right wing ploy.
That’s why they ruined this health care bill. So if it passes they can point to how bad it is. Of course they just won’t mention that they were the ones who put the bad parts in, like mandatory coverage and no public option. They’ll just skip over that.
Just vote to underfund it. Then declare “its bankrupt”.
Sure it is.
Until we vote to fund it.
30 Percenter
“We just have to get past all the people trying to stand in the way of progress.”
I think it’s walk to the left, stand to the right.
“So easy a congressman can do it.”
It’s a bit closer to 220-no?
(220-221, whatever it takes).
“As opposed to your yet to be verified “story””
I don’t believe I need to verify my own life experiences to anyone. I’m not the one overhyping issues with health care in the EU to try and derail the idea of giving every American health care in this country.
That’s your friend, and apparently you.
Duh
Many doctors and practices are dropping Medicare patients.
Byron
I have a CDL and I’m required to get a DOT physical every 2 years. My employer typically pays for it.
My health care reform proposal is to require everyone in the United States to get a CDL. Interstate Commerce Baby!!!
30 percenter
“Your impossible to verify story about “some guy” you “know” in England hardly equates to my 27 years abroad using the health care systems of England and several other European countries.”
As opposed to your yet to be verified “story” ?
Ok then-let’s suppose we spot you your 27 years experience. Essentially you experienced European-style health care as a relatively young and healthy person.
“But I’ll take the EU over the US any day when it comes to health care. And in fact if we don’t work this mess out before I retire, I’ll be retiring in Europe.”
As a right wing troll liar I’d like to congratulate you on your choice and offer-with 48 hours notice-to drive you to the airport on that happy day.
Ciao!!!
No. So easy a congressman can do it.
Just expand MediCare. It’s so easy a caveman can do it.
“I assume you approach your work the same way, just throw shit on a wall and see if sticks. Makes sense to me, run at something half cocked and hope it works. Now that is really not giving a shit about people” Byron
Hmmm, making up stuff again Byron? Isn’t that the work of a troll?
My approach I made clear several times over. My approach was extend Medicare, a time proven health care coverage system that works for millions of Americans every year.
Is it perfect? No. But it works and its already in place.
So rather than “overhauling” the private insurance coverage which is and always was the problem all we need to do is expand an existing program. That means funding it instead of these hairbrained schemes.
Medicares in place. Most hospitals and medical centers take it. And plenty of physicians do too. Do they all? Not yet. But expand it, increase payouts to General Practitioners and walla.
National Health Care.
Already in place.
Already being used by millions.
All we need to do is just do it.
We just have to get past all the people trying to stand in the way of progress.
30%er:
looks like it to me, I would think that if we are going to have a government program it might be a good idea to study countries that have had one for decades and see what their experiences have been.
I assume you approach your work the same way, just throw shit on a wall and see if sticks. Makes sense to me, run at something half cocked and hope it works. Now that is really not giving a shit about people.
“Actually I don’t cut and paste so much, just wanted to show you that there is another side to this issue and that there is reasonable dialog against government run health care on the “right” – Byron of the Right Wing
No Byron, there isn’t.
Actually I don’t cut and paste so much, just wanted to show you that there is another side to this issue and that there is reasonable dialog against government run health care on the “right”.
Basically it comes down to your basic belief system. I think it is either do I have a right to my life and work or do I not.
It is actually a pretty simple equation. If you answer yes then you are against government run health care, if you answer no then you are for government run health care.
Is one better than the other, I think so.
My thoughts? Mee thinks you’re a good one for cutting and pasting articles on the internet that you think support your position.
Of course there’s problems in all systems. That’s why we’re always working to improve them. Yet the cost cuts and issues you’re focusing pale in comparison to the disaster we have here.
Different countries have different issues and in various degrees.
But I’ll take the EU over the US any day when it comes to health care. And in fact if we don’t work this mess out before I retire, I’ll be retiring in Europe.
30%er:
here is another link from USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-07-05-europe-health_N.htm
“Cost-cutting has also hit Switzerland. The numbers of beds have dropped, hospitals have merged, and specialist care has become harder to find. A 2007 survey found that in some hospitals in Geneva and Lausanne, the rates of medical mistakes had jumped by up to 40%. Long ranked as having one of the world’s top four health systems, Switzerland dropped to 8th place in a Europe-wide survey last year.
Government influence in health care may also stifle innovation, other experts warn. Bureaucracies are slow to adopt new medical technologies. In Britain and Germany, even after new drugs are approved, access to them is complicated by the fact that independent agencies must decide if they are worth buying.
When the breast cancer drug Herceptin was proven to be effective in 1998, it was available almost immediately in the U.S. But it took another four years for the U.K. to start buying it for British breast cancer patients.”
What are your thoughts on this?