Poll: One-Third of Texans Believe Men Once Co-Existed With Dinosaurs and Over One-Third Believe That Man Was Created by God 10,000 Years Ago Without Evolution

A University of Texas and Texas Tribune poll has found that roughly one in three Texans believe that humans and dinosaurs walked the Earth at the same time and more than half reject the theory of evolution. According to the poll, 38 percent agreed with the statement “God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago.”

Another 38 percent said human beings developed over millions of years with God guiding the process while another 12 percent said that development happened without God having any part of the process.

An amazing 51 percent disagreed with the statement, “human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals.” Only thirty-five percent agreed with that statement.

The Texas school system has called for greater Bible reading in schools, here.

For the full story, click here

115 thoughts on “Poll: One-Third of Texans Believe Men Once Co-Existed With Dinosaurs and Over One-Third Believe That Man Was Created by God 10,000 Years Ago Without Evolution

  1. “God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago.”


    Personally, I believe that ol’ time religion (and the Civil Rights Movement) created Texans in their present form about 50 years ago.

  2. It does say one third not two thirds so one is able to meet a few compatible people around here. I would think this would be true throughout the southern and border states. It could even be higher in Tennessee.

  3. Put me on the list that believes God created “all” around 7 to 10 thousand years ago. Men co-existed with dinosaurs? Okay. Noah had sense enough to take little dinosaurs on the ark instead of big ones. Jesus Christ “spoke” the universe into existence according to the book of Colossians in the Bible. (around verse 16, I think) I’m unabashedly 100% in favor of the Bible account. Maybe one of you intellectuals might enlighten me on anthropic constants, irreducible complexity, lack of transitory fossils, the astronomically “impossible” odds of information equivalent to 1,000 complete sets of the Encyclopedia Britainica being imbedded in EACH MOLECULE of DNA. If the universe has been around for billions of years, how much closer to the sun was it 50 billion years ago? The sun loses mass every year. “IF” we were closer, we would burn up. “IF” we were farther away, we’d freeze. I say God put us in the “EXACT” place he wanted us for the bio system to flourish.

  4. For most people; Who gives a crap if humans walked the earth with dinosaurs? How is this knowledge going to effect their lives?

    Is the goal here to make fun of those who are not as “enlightened” as others?

    What do you think would be the results of the same survey in your state?

  5. I think the actual issue here is a tongue in cheek attack on what the intellectually elite like to think of as their superior knowledge. The state a person lives in does not quantify their IQ. I love Texas. They execute people on death row in Texas. And, I bet a lot of them who agree with me on the evolution issue are against executing people in the womb, as they are innocent of any crime, and don’t deserve to be executed, er, I mean aborted. As I’m obviously not as smart as Anonymously Yours, I also think I should be able to keep my wages and give to the poor as I see fit and not how the liberal elite sees fit. I’d like to see the fence built along the border and make it more difficult for MS-13 to cross and over-run and execute law enforcement officials in Brownsville Texas. I’m so ignorant that I actually believe welfare recipients should have to pass drug tests in order to be paid my wages that I work for and have taken from me to subsidize vermin breeding as an occupation in the government subsidized housing projects. I think Joe Arpaio should be US Attorney General. Boy, that would really piss y’all off.

  6. Davis of the Apes –

    You have all the right in the world to be as “unabashedly” pro Bible as you see fit. I do get the impression you’ve at least applied some serious thinking on the subject, which does set you apart from the “sheep.” So you get no backhanded remarks from me.

    Maybe your IQ is a tad higher than most. In which case, you’d have no problem comprehending why some of equal intellect have real challenges with certain aspects of the Scriptures. For me, the largest incongruency always gets down to the same conundrum: What possible sense does it make for the Messiah to have walked the earth for 30+ years, only to ignore 99.999999% of the humans on the planet? The presence of the Son of God on earth, would indeed have to be the single greatest event in history. For Jesus to have not made his presence known to all peoples – on every continent – flies in the face of logic.

    Occam’s Razor is a useful tool. The simplest answer is the wisest option. Ergo, the Scriptures were written by humans. They are beautiful, complex, emotional, varying & flawed.

    One man’s opinion.

  7. mespo,

    Well said and seconded.


    Your statement implies that Ralph Cramden is the missing link.


    You could have pushed The Jetson’s in the South but noooooooooooo . . .

  8. Patric, I don’t have an answer for your question. I do believe that God knows what he is doing and is outside of the of confines of time. He is omnipresent in the past, present and future. I believe that God makes no mistakes. I’ve often wondered about the people on the North American continent 2K years ago. I don’t believe that God will send anybody to hell “just because” they have not heard about the Gospel, but, rather the law of God is written in men’s hearts. He’ll judge and we are not charged with that responsibility. In a pre-emptive strike for the coming barrage from Bdaman and Buddah is laughing, my statement is that Jesus Christ said in John 14:1 and following that “I am the way, the truth and the life. NO man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” The plain truth is that either he is correct, or a liar. I believe he is correct.

    I’m somewhat amused by people from up North assuming that they are smarter than us hillbillies and the mindset of the culturally elite looking down on folks like me who really admire Sarah Palin, traditional values, marriage being between one man and one woman and having the audacity to not be anymore upset about George Tiller’s abortion than the 60K he offed. I don’t find that prevailing opinion much of a problem. Before I sink “too far” down into the pit, let me say that Jesus Christ is perfect. I am not. You are not. Budda is laughing and Jonathan Turley are not. Our opinions are nothing more than entertainment, a diversion and sparring between people who like to argue politics, religion and ideology. As Mr. Spock would say, “Live long and Prosper.” (While we still have a little bit of a Capitalistic society left.)

  9. davisoftheapes1:

    “Maybe one of you intellectuals might enlighten me on anthropic constants, irreducible complexity, lack of transitory fossils, the astronomically “impossible” odds of information equivalent to 1,000 complete sets of the Encyclopedia Britainica being imbedded in EACH MOLECULE of DNA.”


    These poor excuses for teleological arguments have been refuted since the time of Epicurus and Lucretius and by the most learned men of their respective successive eons. There is no point in “enlightening” you since a pre-requisite to enlightenment is the cold, stern realization that you might not know everything — or at least a magic book written before man knew what a microbe or a pixel was doesn’t hold the sum total of the world’s wisdom. If you want to know the truth you won’t get it from Rick Warren.

    To correct just one badge of ignorance, transitory fossils have been around for quite some time:


  10. Sorry, davisoftheapes. I only argue with those who have opposable thumbs. That and I trust mespo will adequately clean your clock. Enjoy your pending drubbing. I know I will. Salut!

  11. davisoftheapes1, I’m not buying the “I’m dumb” act. I do buy the attempt to manipulate opinion through guilt-ridden sarcasm.

    It is not “elite” to want to understand the universe in terms other than the bible.

    Statements such as “jeebus is perfect” ring hollow. It is a non-statement, that bully you have run to in your mind to not only beat us up, but DAMN US TO HELL. But hey, it’s not you, you didn’t piss god off, not your fault…

    You run there because you cannot face the possibility you may not know everything, and that by all accounts your perfect god is an abominable bi-polar asshole who does not care ONE FIG what happens to you or anyone else. Another name for god in this context is called “real life,” that arena in which you refuse to dwell.

    You are free to believe what you want. And I will do everything within my own rights to prevent your magic-thinking to continue to form the basis of our shared public policy. So feel free to shove a sock in the god-bluff-talk. Ain’t buyin your act, son.

  12. Since Occam’s Razor was mentioned….

    Also, Davisofapes, nothing existed before 10,000 years ago? Really?

    I don’t claim to be an intellectual. I live in the south, up in the mountains, too, but even I realize the Earth is much older.

    Do you use any source other than the bible to glean that opinion? I’m not trying to be snarky. Is there really any source other than the bible that supports that idea?

  13. James:

    “Another name for god in this context is called “real life,” that arena in which you refuse to dwell.”


    I am waiting for our erstwhile hillbilly to explain to me how a compassionate, all-knowing, all-powerful, anthropomorphic God who involves himself in the pitiful lives of we on Earth, could permit Haitian schoolchildren to be crushed at their desks, or imprisoned for days in caustic rubble awaiting HUMAN salvation, and still face his followers on Sunday. Any ideas?

  14. Mespo,

    I guess I fall somewhere in between. I believe in a Creator(s) (because I don’t believe that we evolved from space dust), but I don’t believe that Creator(s) does much more than make design changes and then let the chips fall where they may.

    I also don’t call the changes to the “Camaro”, evolution.:)

  15. Mespo inquired, “could permit Haitian schoolchildren to be crushed at their desks, or imprisoned for days in caustic rubble awaiting HUMAN salvation, and still face his followers on Sunday. Any ideas?”

    Only mental illness conforms to what you describe.

    A sickness, e.g. Rapture, in which one is free to set aside any responsibilities for honesty, intellectual or otherwise, in this life in favor of the manufactured “next life” of the mind, in which one gets either gold streets (heaven is ABSOLUTELY level with no stairs), and/or vestal virgins (which means the bedrooms of heaven run forever red with blood…do any of these knucleheads think this shit THROUGH first?!? — oh, yes, and god CLEARLY hates women, among his other distastes) and/or Everlasting Life, which is what we have now, if we’d just pay more attention to genetics. No heaven required for life everlasting. It’s called DNA.

    And I would not care about any of it. These folks used to stay home on election day because they knew their world-views were incompatible with politics, which requires compromise. But now, Rapture forms the basis of our public policy through this moment in time as we maintain two crusader occupations, drawn in cartoon form by Rummy for W to at all times to enforce the notion We Are On A Crusade. The crusade notion then became the mask for the unspeakable theft of our national and personal wealth, to say nothing of the grave dishonor our troops now face, being forced to fight based on lie after murderous lie.

    The idea is to weaken our govt to the point where it can be easily toppled, and then our budding religious technocratic oligarchy will come unabated into its noon-tide.

    Professor Turley (among others) warned us all, and repeatedly.

    I will have no more of it. The quaint days where we do not openly and repeatedly question the magic-thinking of others are now over. Or we are. The world is too fucking small these days.

    (My apologies for the Elephantitis of the Digits.)

  16. Duh:

    “I believe in a Creator(s) (because I don’t believe that we evolved from space dust), but I don’t believe that Creator(s) does much more than make design changes and then let the chips fall where they may.”


    Being a deist puts you in good company. The Founders took that approach. My beliefs closely align with yours in that I think the most divine thing we have are the natural laws governing the universe for which no scientific explanation exists, (e.g., why does gravity operate on objects by pulling them towards one another rather than away?) — sort of the god of Einstein or Spinoza. God-as-lawgiver, is more appealing to me than God-as-Santa-in-the-sky, though I freely admit I have no proof to back my hypothesis. The difference between me and the James’ of the world is that I am wiling to change my view based on new information, and I am not arrogant enough (yet, some would say) to believe that I have a monopoly on the mysteries of creation (if there was one) or that any old book I fancy has that quality either.

    BTW, I agree about the Camaro, but the 2010 Maserati GranCabrio–truly evolutionary. See for yourself:


  17. Dredd at 11:28 am gave us this excellent link:

    Justice Scalia dissed the Governor of Texas, a fellow to-the-righter, recently.

    There is such a thing as trickle down memes …


    Here is Scalia’s take:

    QUOTE A guy was writing a screen play.

    His brother was a lawyer.

    The screenplay was about Maine seceding from the United States.

    His brother, in an attempt to help the play, wrote all of the justices of the Supreme Court to ask them what their thoughts were on the subject.

    Only one justice replied. Justice Scalia wrote back:

    I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”) Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

    Scalia was phoning this one in to a secretary.

    Scalia did not mention that a state can constitutionally secede by constitutional amendment. Maine (or Texas) need only submit such an amendment, either to Congress for 2/3ds approval by both Houses, or to a convention called by the states. In either case, 3/4ths of the states must ratify.

    The seccessionists better be careful what thye wish for. The states might let them go.

    On the point of the lawsuit, the states seeking to secede would sue the OTHER STATES. The Supreme Court has original jurisdiction in those cases and could rule on this.

    Under the Constitution, the Court would have to rule that the states can secede only by constitutional amendment.

    Sorry, does not make for much of a screenplay, does it?

    Added note to Nino: “One nation, indivisible” is not in the Constitution, so it has no bearing whatsoever on the issue.

  18. davisoftheapes1:

    is it possible that it is because it has to be? Since there are certain things that have to happen for life of any kind isn’t it possible that the laws of physics are the reason and it is so because it cant be otherwise?

    Also couldn’t life just be a random occurrence? We just got lucky and happen to have our home in just the right place? Also think about the fact that in a few billion years our home will be cold and dead due to our sun dying.

    But you are right there are some holes in that theory as you suggest. I have a hard time understanding how a relatively small wolf-like creature changes into a giant blue whale without serious environmental pressure.

  19. Byron said “I have a hard time understanding how a relatively small wolf-like creature changes into a giant blue whale without serious environmental pressure.”

    LOL:) Serious environmental pressure? As long as we have serious environmental pressure pigs can begin to fly?

    I can buy into an argument that a fish can learn to walk using their fins, or that man will walk more erect due to environmental pressure, but much more is one heck of a leap.

    I think complete removal of a creative force, having the ability to modify the end product to better fit within the environment is a conclusion that too many scientists are willing to conclude too quickly.

  20. davisoftheapes1: “Maybe one of you intellectuals might enlighten me on anthropic constants, irreducible complexity, lack of transitory fossils, the astronomically “impossible” odds of information equivalent to 1,000 complete sets of the Encyclopedia Britainica being imbedded in EACH MOLECULE of DNA.”

    See, the thing is, when you REALLY sit down and think about it, as Immanuel Kant did, you’ll find that the ultimate answer is outside the grasp of human reason–thus the ‘reason’ the Board of Ed in Kansas is rather puerile.

    Before reading the following, you should familiarize yourself with the definition of ‘antinomy’

    Here’s a taste…

    There belongs to the world,
    either as its part or as its
    cause, a being that is
    absolutely necessary.
    The sensible world, as the
    sum-total of all appearances,
    contains a series of alterations.
    For without such a series even
    the representation of serial
    time, as a condition of the
    possibility of the sensible
    world, would not be given us.
    ++ Time, as the formal condition of the possibility of changes, is indeed objectively prior to them; subjectively, however, in actual consciousness, the representation of time, like every other, is given only in connection with perceptions.
    P 415a
    An absolutely necessary
    being nowhere exists in the
    world, nor does it exist
    outside the world as its cause.
    If we assume that the
    world itself is necessary, or
    that a necessary being exists
    in it, there are then two
    alternatives. Either there is a
    beginning in the series of
    alterations which is absolutely
    necessary, and therefore without
    a cause, or the series itself
    is without any beginning,
    and although contingent and
    P 416a
    conditioned in all its parts,
    none the less, as a whole, is
    absolutely necessary and
    P 415
    But every alteration stands
    under its condition, which
    precedes it in time and renders
    P 416
    it necessary. Now every
    conditioned that is given
    presupposes, in respect of its
    existence, a complete series of
    conditions up to the unconditioned,
    which alone is absolutely
    necessary. Alteration
    thus existing as a consequence
    of the absolutely necessary,
    the existence of something
    absolutely necessary must
    be granted. But this necessary
    existence itself belongs
    to the sensible world. For if
    it existed outside that world,
    the series of alterations in the
    world would derive its beginning
    from a necessary cause
    which would not itself belong A454 B482
    to the sensible world. This,
    however, is impossible. For
    since the beginning of a series
    in time can be determined
    only by that which precedes
    it in time, the highest
    condition of the beginning of a
    series of changes must exist
    in the time when the series
    as yet was not (for a beginning
    is an existence preceded
    by a time in which the thing
    that begins did not yet exist).”

    (continued here)


    It gets real fun when you consider C.G. Jung’s work with ‘the collective unconscious’ in tandem with the workings of quantum physics.


    Wasn’t that fun?

  21. before this devolves into a major league Texan bash(although deservedly so), I would like to remind everyone of a few things.

    Willie Nelson
    Waylon Jennings
    Kris Kristofferson
    Townes Van Zandt
    Johnny Winter
    The Big Bopper
    Roy Orbison
    Buddy Holly
    Johnny Mathis
    Janis Joplin
    Stevie Ray Vaughn
    Joe Ely
    Lightnin’ Hopkins
    Blind Lemon Jefferson
    Blind Willie Johnson
    Freddie King
    T-Bone Walker
    Barry White
    Jimmie Dale Gilmore
    Bob Wills
    Nanci Griffith
    George Strait
    Scott Joplin
    Jerry Jeff Walker
    Stephen Stills
    Lead Belly
    Sam the Sham

    not George W. Bush

    are or were Texans

    *although to be honest i’m not a professional musician but i do like to play the spoon

  22. C.

    You left out following:

    Delbert McClinton,
    Joe Ely, (Corrected)
    Marcia Ball,
    Jimmie Vaughan,
    Lightnin’ Hopkins,
    Buck Owens,
    Hank Thompson,
    Ray Price,
    T-Bone Burnett,
    Johnny Winter,
    Archie Bell & the Drells,
    Johnny Guitar Watson,
    Ornette Coleman,
    Townes Van Zandt,
    Selena Quintanilla,
    Steve Miller,
    Charlie Sexton,
    Janis Joplin,
    ZZ Top

    I was going to dispute KK but remembered that his dad was in the Army so it possible. FYI, did you know he claimed to never have used drugs and taught at West Point?

  23. AY:

    I seem to recall something about KK and West Point but I think he turned down a position there. I could very well be wrong

    I left Steve Miller off on purpose, I think he’s really from Oklahoma😀

    thanks for the updates

    I have no clue who Pantera is

  24. Mea culpa, Mea culpa, Mea culpa. He did turn it down.

    Pantera is Heavy Metal, head banger music. Would make even Alex Rose look good.

    Used to be a Pantera’s Pizza in Austin. Not sure of they are related.

  25. Duh:

    I worded that wrong, I was trying to question Mr. Darwins theory.

    But with that said how do you know that pigs didnt fly at some point long ago? Maybe there were flying squirrel type animals that evolved into pigs:)

  26. Who cares?

    I’m just mad ’cause nobody accepts my theory of creation which has a lot to do with magic dust and Tinker Bell.

  27. Great posts this morning Buddha, especially your first. I’m terrified about where we’re headed — I’m terrified about where we are right now — but these last two posts give me a sense of hope and peace, as I head off for a long day of work. Thanks.

  28. Elaine,

    “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.” – Adolph Hitler channeling his Minister of Propaganda Herr Goebbels

    And thanks for the laugh.

  29. ECookie,

    We don’t like the likes of them folks in Texas. Nope, never. Some people don’t. I could really care less. I am of the I don’t give a shit class. We are born, we do somethings and occupy space and we die. At the end, who really gives a shit? I bet not a person on this list except save Mike A. Mespo and or Mike S., could say that they know who Flavius Josephus is and at this juncture could give a shit who he was. I did not know him but he was somebody at one time.

  30. davisoftheapes1, transitional fossils…


    Oldest Skeleton of Human Ancestor FoundJamie Shreeve
    Science editor, National Geographic magazine
    October 1, 2009

    “Move over, Lucy. And kiss the missing link goodbye.

    Scientists today announced the discovery of the oldest fossil skeleton of a human ancestor. The find reveals that our forebears underwent a previously unknown stage of evolution more than a million years before Lucy, the iconic early human ancestor specimen that walked the Earth 3.2 million years ago.

    The centerpiece of a treasure trove of new fossils, the skeleton—assigned to a species called Ardipithecus ramidus—belonged to a small-brained, 110-pound (50-kilogram) female nicknamed “Ardi.” …

    The biggest surprise about Ardipithecus’s biology is its bizarre means of moving about.

    All previously known hominids—members of our ancestral lineage—walked upright on two legs, like us. But Ardi’s feet, pelvis, legs, and hands suggest she was a biped on the ground but a quadruped when moving about in the trees.

    Her big toe, for instance, splays out from her foot like an ape’s, the better to grasp tree limbs. Unlike a chimpanzee foot, however, Ardipithecus’s contains a special small bone inside a tendon, passed down from more primitive ancestors, that keeps the divergent toe more rigid. Combined with modifications to the other toes, the bone would have helped Ardi walk bipedally on the ground, though less efficiently than later hominids like Lucy. The bone was lost in the lineages of chimps and gorillas.”

    Time and opportunity are the twin ghods that render every possibility probable. If you need a less complex example of evolution just consider the common roach and what a boon it is to the makers of insecticides. Roaches become resistant (evolve as a species) to posions so quickly that re-formulating insecticides every so often is necessary to kill them:


  31. AY:

    why did you bring up Flavius Josephus? Hoping he actually did document a certain someone? Feeling a little spiritual this fine morning?

  32. ECookie,

    Contrary to you ascertainment. The true southern gentleman would never let you know if they did not. However, you would likely know where you stand in any altercation. But if people from the South remember History, they should be deeply indebted to the British when there was that little ole thing called the war between the states.

  33. AY:

    I actually do know who Josephus was. But have only read a very small portion of his work. I am not in the same category as the 2 Mikes and Mespo, they have a huge knowledge of the classics and mine is piddling.

  34. AY:

    I have no trading cards at all if by trading cards you mean baseball cards, etc that come from bubble gum packages.

  35. Professor,

    This might be considered important in a number of peoples lives.

    8 major benefits of new credit card law

    On May 22, President Barack Obama signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure, or Credit CARD, Act of 2009 into law. The legislation will improve consumer disclosures and end some egregious practices in the credit card industry but stops short of capping interest rates and fees. Most of the provisions go into effect Feb. 22, 2010, unless otherwise stated.


  36. Ummmhmmmmmm, Buddha……. Do you think that his works are exacting or revisionist? Depending on whom you read in the critique of his works, you might find dubious honor.

    Ok, you can throw Elaine M., in the works too. She was after all a librarian…

  37. AY,

    Since actual archaeological finds have resulted from examination of his writings, I’m going to answer exacting qualified with “as any historian”. The hubbub about his being considered a Pharisee in no way detracts from his now proven merit as a historian.

  38. AY,

    Yes, I’m sure Elaine is familiar with Josephus as well. As she proved with that lovely birthday video she found for me, “Librarians Know Where To Find It!”

  39. I bet they do, ah so well. One thing about a Librarians, they will sift through the B.S. to get to the source…..

  40. Ms. Eh.,

    You see I taught a male self defense class called Evasive Answers to Women’s Questions. Hmm, I guess some of the other sexes took offense at this.

  41. Byron, The migration out of Africa began 50K to 60K years ago; Eve, the mitochondrial mother of us all lived 150K yrs ago; the fossil evidence for the archetypal Homo Sapiens goes back 200k yrs ago and was a direct decedent of Homo heidelbergensis (as was Neanderthal man) which goes back 350K years.

    You have to take the long view unless anything but the pale European model of early humanity is repugnant to your sensibilities.

    If you get the chance to rent or watch “the Story of India” it has a couple of interesting insights regarding language and genetics. We came out of Africa with language and rituals. Those things did not develop magically as we crossed the threshold between Africa and the Mideast/Europe.

    Personally, no whim of a supernatural being can compare, for me, to the grandeur, drama, ceaseless change and struggle of evolution to fill every niche available to be filled with life. It is at once the most simple and reasonable of processes as well as the most miraculous and awe-inspiring.

    IMO attributing this magnificent legacy of billions of years of natural selection to a few thousand years of attention by a ghod or ghods makes it all rather small and tawdry. It fosters a disregard for life and the planet that is misplaced in the face of the unique and precious thing that we have and inhabit.


  42. I somehow missed this thread yesterday. I’ve been busy with plans for my daughter’s wedding.

    So…..some of you have bin tossin’ me name about in this discussion? Well, I never let on to what historic males I’m familiar with–Gluteus Maximus included. I can tell you this though–it’s unlikely you’d ever have found me in the company of a guy named Flavius.

    FYI: We librians have been in a blue funk ever since they threw away our wooden card catalogs, doncha know!

  43. I need Nal looking over my shoulder when I type!

    FYI: We librians have been in a blue funk ever since they threw away our wooden card catalogs, doncha know!

    Correction–We librarians have been in a blue funk ever since they threw away our wooden card catalogs, doncha know!

  44. Elaine M:

    Congrats on your daughter’s wedding! I hope the planning goes well. Leslie and I eloped on New Year’s Eve )but then had a full wedding later for the family). We were met outside of the city office on New Year’s Eve by a guy on all fours throwing up in the gutter. Now that is romantic. That should give you a lot of room for success in comparison!

  45. Congratulation on you daughter’s wedding, Elaine. I am a long ways from a wedding for my son or my daughter. My daughter has not decided on a law school. She has two acceptances in your area but I don’t think she is going to either of them.

  46. Professor Turley,

    I think I may be able to top that story. During our wedding reception, my husband’s best man got inebriated, left the ballroom, and sat on a bench in the hallway across from the entrance to the restaurant puking on his tuxedo.

    That’s one of my fondest–and most romantic–memories of my wedding day.

  47. Swarthmore mom–

    Thanks. I keep seeing $$$$$$$$$$$ floating around in my head–floating around and out the window…just like the days when my daughter was in college.

    Congratulations to your daughter on her acceptances to law schools.

    BTW, the Boston area is a great place for college students!

  48. Elaine M I know it is. Both of my kids looked out there. They did not want to stay in Texas. I have a cousin that teaches at BU and my mother’s brother and his family lived in Exeter. The price of UT Law looks good now.

  49. Elaine,

    Congratulations! I hope your daughter has a vomit-free and joyous wedding that presages a long happy marriage.


    Congratulations to you on your daughter’s acceptances. May her law school experience be as digestively stable experience as well.

  50. Elaine M.,

    Puke Free Weddings are good. Good luck on that though. Flavius appears to be a good man or at least that is how history describes him.

  51. Speaking of vomit and puke and weddings–maybe I should put my entrepreneurial talents to work and design a line of “Barf Bags for Bridal Parties.” Just a thought.

  52. Duh,

    It matters because evolutionary theory is central to just about every aspect of biological science today. It matters because it explains why some antibiotics suddenly stopped being so effective against some bacteria. It matters because it helps develop crops that are more reliable. It matters because it helps to understand human behavior. It matters because reality matters. You want to believe in a God, fine. If you believe in a God that doesn’t line up with what happens in the universe, you had better be prepared for those who study what happens and use that knowledge to make your life better, to tell you that you’re wrong.


    Having a sincere belief in no way shields you from having to listen to that belief being criticized so you should probably quit playing the victim on that account. Your solution is to either figure out a way to reconcile your beliefs with observable reality or quit complaining when people point out that the two don’t match.


    For as long as you’ve had your serious doubts about evolutionary theory, you sure haven’t bothered to check out what’s actually said about them. Go to your local library, check out some books.


  53. gYGES:

    I just doubt, I don’t let facts interfere.:)
    I am reading On the Origin of Species currently. I figure I may as well begin at the beginning.

  54. eLAINE:

    yep 6,000 years ago. I just get nightmares thinking about being eaten by a Velociraptor or worse. Although I think one poster pointed out that all dinasaurs were vegetarian until Eve ate the apple at which point the meat eaters went extinct.

    the smiley face is done by a : and a ) put together with no space:) but you have to leave a space before the : or you get this:)

  55. Elaine:

    antediluvian times, is that before or after dinosaurs?

    you are welcome. I am limited though as that is the only one I know. AY can do a scornful face so for the graduate level you will have to get him to explain the technology.

  56. Ok if man is 150 to 200 thousand years old, what ever they say it is. Why is it we have a mass of intelligence in say the last 2500 to 3000 years. Kinda like a light switch was suddenly turned on.

  57. Byron–

    Dinosaurs were around before the flood. Don’t you remember how Noah brought two of each kind of dinosaur–as well as other types of animals–onto the ark?

    Here’s a response to your question in verse. I changed a few words in this Biblical limerick that I wrote years ago to bring in dinosaurs:

    T. Rexes, raptors, and gnus
    All hurried to line up by twos…
    Couldn’t wait to embark
    Upon Noah’s new ark
    And relax on a forty-day cruise.

  58. Elaine:

    that was great, a new line of Intelligent Design or Creation teaching aids?

    The kids would really learn their “stuff” with those rhymes.

  59. Bdaman–

    “Kinda like a light switch was suddenly turned on.”

    Unfortunately, the switches weren’t turned on in a lot of houses.


    “Why is it we have a mass of intelligence in say the last 2500 to 3000 years.”

    Sorry to say that nowadays we also have a mass of stupidity and ignorance to counterbalance intelligence and knowledge.

  60. You have to excuse me if the graduate class has adjourned early.

    * 😦 frown
    *😉 wink
    * :(““ crying
    * >:) mischevious grin
    *:-/ smirk or confused
    *😛 smiling and sticking out your tongue
    *😀 laughing hard
    * >:-\ mad

  61. You will need to take the spaces out in order to make the emotions.

    * : – ( frown
    * ; – ) wink
    * : ( ““ crying
    * > : ) mischevious grin
    * : – / smirk or confused
    * : – P smiling and sticking out your tongue
    * : – D laughing hard
    * > : – \ mad

  62. Bdaman:

    I think it was because of agriculture. Once humans figured out farming we were able to grasp higher level concepts. Hunter gatherers have a very short time horizon, farmers have to think long term.

    Once we had farming down we could then expend energy on other things like art and science. I think that is why you see that “explosion” of knowledge. I don’t know why it took almost 5,000 years for this to happen but it took about 30,000 years for us to figure out farming.

    Certainly more to it than that but farming was the beginning. It took man all that time to get to agriculture, from there it took all that time to get to the transistor. Now we are learning asymptotically, with time on the x axis and knowledge on the y axis. I have heard it said that our knowledge doubles about every 2 years now. (I bet Gyges would know for sure what the rate is)

    Farming and the transistor-2 great leaps forward in human learning.

  63. Bob, Esq., I just read the wikipedia entry on Kammerer. It noted that he shot himself in the forest of Schneeberg. I once heard of someone who shot himself in the aquaduct of Sylvinus, but I’m not familiar enough with anatomy to locate the forest of Schneeberg.

  64. “I think it was because of agriculture. Once humans figured out farming we were able to grasp higher level concepts. Hunter gatherers have a very short time horizon, farmers have to think long term.”

    You are confusing causation and correlation, Byron. The change in mindset wasn’t the key change nor the cause for the “burst” of intelligence. The causal mover was agriculture’s direct benefit in creating free time. Free time used to think about things other than hunting, gathering and making baby humans. Like physics and law and philosophy and mathematics and art. Agriculture freed time because it is 1) contextually less labor intensive than the options, 2) capable of producing surpluses – something the more subsistence hunter/gatherers could not do as a general rule and 3) it’s repeatable nature (predictability – which would be the true cause of the change in way of thinking, us adapting to the regularity of growth cycles).

    Also, measuring “knowledge” is a misguided and mistaken way to look at knowledge. It assumes too much, such as you’re using the correct yardstick that can define all knowledge from none to “perfect”. The best one can do is measure the rate of change. To this end, I point you to the work of Ray Kurzweil and his formulation of the Law of Accelerating Returns.

    “We can organize these observations into what I call the law of accelerating returns as follows:

    Evolution applies positive feedback in that the more capable methods resulting from one stage of evolutionary progress are used to create the next stage. As a result, the rate of progress of an evolutionary process increases exponentially over time. Over time, the “order” of the information embedded in the evolutionary process (i.e., the measure of how well the information fits a purpose, which in evolution is survival) increases.

    A correlate of the above observation is that the “returns” of an evolutionary process (e.g., the speed, cost-effectiveness, or overall “power” of a process) increase exponentially over time.

    In another positive feedback loop, as a particular evolutionary process (e.g., computation) becomes more effective (e.g., cost effective), greater resources are deployed toward the further progress of that process. This results in a second level of exponential growth (i.e., the rate of exponential growth itself grows exponentially).

    Biological evolution is one such evolutionary process.

    Technological evolution is another such evolutionary process. Indeed, the emergence of the first technology creating species resulted in the new evolutionary process of technology. Therefore, technological evolution is an outgrowth of–and a continuation of–biological evolution.
    A specific paradigm (a method or approach to solving a problem, e.g., shrinking transistors on an integrated circuit as an approach to making more powerful computers) provides exponential growth until the method exhausts its potential. When this happens, a paradigm shift (i.e., a fundamental change in the approach) occurs, which enables exponential growth to continue.” [reformatted]

    from : http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1

  65. Hey Green Fat One…..What’s up? The professor said that there were some funny folks on here. Where ya been?

  66. Byron,

    No. That book is on my To Read list though. Ray is a sharp guy. Makes a dandy keyboard too.


    I’ve been busy. But now is chocolate cake time. Then more busy. Moving may be such sweet sorrow, but more than once in two months simply sucks.

  67. BIL,
    Chocolate cake time???? So not fair, I am procrastinating my trip to the gym so that my 18 yo trainer can cause me pain for the next 2 days!!! I would much rather be eating chocolate cake…preferably in front of a crackling fireplace!

  68. Well Buddha one must suffer. Let me tell you what I have eaten this day so far. I got up drank my cuba coffee as I always do (heck all day). I ate 2 choch chip sugar cookies and then had breakfast. I ate lunch and then 4 more cookies. Then 2 brownies and 2 dove bars. A mini 3 musketeers and I am waiting for supper. I will not have anymore until bed time then I will then eat a pint of Blue Bell. Such sufferance, I do understand.

  69. Mike Appleton: “Bob, Esq., I just read the wikipedia entry on Kammerer. It noted that he shot himself in the forest of Schneeberg. I once heard of someone who shot himself in the aquaduct of Sylvinus, but I’m not familiar enough with anatomy to locate the forest of Schneeberg.”

    Dry yet shameless. Not many folks can pull that off.

  70. Byron–

    Intelligent Design or Creation teaching aids that instruct children using rhyme as a mnemonic device? Great idea! I’ll get to work on that right now! Here are two rough drafts:

    On the seventh day God said: “I did my best.
    Now I’m going to take a rest!
    I labored hard for six long days.
    Now write me a hymn of thanks and praise.”

    A Rah Rah Rhyme for Creationist Cheerleaders
    Evolution? Nay! Nay! Nay!
    Creationism? Yay! Yay! Yay!
    Genesis tells us all we need to know.
    Our world was created six thousand years ago.
    Darwin got his science facts mangled and twisted.
    Humans and dinosaurs co-existed.

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