Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger
I believe that it is impossible to deal with any problem until one understands the underlying nature of that problem. The analogy of a Physician treating the symptoms of a patient, but ignoring the cause of those symptoms, comes to mind. We have the medicine to deal with the specific manifestation of an illness like a headache and a fever, but in ameliorating the discomfort of the symptoms, we may miss the underlying pathology. This happened to me last March when shortly after being prescribed a change in the anti-rejection medicines that keep me alive after my heart transplant, I began to get so sick that I needed hospitalization in intensive care. I won’t bore you with the grimy details of this sudden downturn in health, but I must note that my most important bodily functions began to shut down. What is curious about this incident is that my wife, who is internet savvy, immediately began to suggest to my Doctors that I was having a bad reaction to the medicinal change. At first they ignored her as they had Department Heads in Cardiology, Immunology, Infectious Diseases, Neurology, Proctology, Urology and even Dermatology come in to examine me and pore over my medical charts. Finally, in response to my wife’s unfailing advocacy, they returned me to my prior anti-rejection medication. To my Physician’s surprise and possible chagrin the symptoms almost immediately began to abate and within in days I was home from the hospital and on the mend.
While the story above may seem to be far afield from my topic today, I use it to illustrate how even the best minds can be distracted from an underlying pathology by the symptoms it presents. The pathology I want to deal with in this piece is that of our America becoming a country increasingly divided between rich and poor. We are a country at war with itself. That war is one defined by social/economic class and by skin color. The manifestations of the “warfare” are to be seen in our political system and the mock battles between “conservatives” and “liberals” for the soul of the nation. Yet the two dominant parties are both financed, thus controlled, by those who are extremely wealthy. Their party differences seem only to be ones of degree. By degree I mean the Republican’s are in favor of an all out war on those of lower economic status, while the Democrat’s seek to ameliorate the effects upon them, but continue the economic dominance of that miniscule percentage of our people. To my mind the problem of economic inequality in our country is merely a symptom of an underlying psychological mindset of those with wealth and thus great power. Those of us who would change the equation between wealth and class find ourselves fighting the “symptoms” of this class warfare, but these “symptoms” confuse our cause. On a macrocosmic scale the “battles” in this “warfare” are “fought” via political ideologies based on theories by “great” economists and social commentators. To my mind these are “mock battles” because they are involved only in symptoms misdiagnosed by “experts”. Permit me to explain.
Consider the Koch Brothers, whose wealth was estimated in Forbes Magazine to be $36 billion each. http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/morning_call/2013/09/koch-brothers-net-worth-36-billion.html Were these brothers to stop all economic activity today it would be reasonable to assume that all their progeny and future progeny, would have enough money to not have to work for perhaps 20 generations to come. The simple truth is that barring some heretofore unsuspected catastrophe, that much wealth would allow the bearers to live comfortably through even the harshest social upheaval one could imagine. Even violent revolutions, as those we’ve seen in Russia and in China, were such that many of the wealthiest in those societies were able to escape the “Revolution” with their lives and their wealth intact. Yet these brothers, who are tied for fourth on Forbes list of the “100 Wealthiest American’s, are arguably the most active people politically in this country and their activism is all focused on ensuring the primacy of themselves and their class. What can it be then that motivates people like the Koch Brothers, who have far more wealth than they can conceivably manage to use in their lifetimes, to be so set on ensuring the that their class will be supreme in America and in the world? I suggest that the answer has nothing to do with either politics or economics. I assert that it is a battle of “good” versus “evil”, but that those terms are rendered meaningless if applied in their normal moral contexts.
The leadership in this country’s war against the lower classes are fighting this “war” because they deem themselves to be the repositories of “virtue” and also the most capable, therefore the most deserving people to lead. This is why I believe that we could throw out the normal conceptions of “good” versus “evil” when we try to conceptualize what is going on here. Class Warfare in America is being waged because most of our wealthiest people believe they are acting morally in waging it. They see themselves as representing all that is “good” in humanity and they are fighting the “evil” of those who would take from society without “producing” anything. To understand the basis of the struggle being waged politically in our country, we must understand that it has developed from psychological suppositions, rather than socio-economic principles.
“A study of social class — defined by annual income and by education-level — finds that “Social class rank was positively associated with essentialist beliefs [beliefs that genetics is more important than environment in explaining social class]. … Social class rank was also positively associated with both belief in a just world … and meritocracy beliefs, … suggesting that upper-class … individuals are more likely to believe that society is fair and just than are their lower-class rank counterparts.”
This study, “Social Class Rank, Essentialism, and Punitive Judgment,” was published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, and was performed by Michael W. Kraus and Dacher Keltner, two leading social scientists, whose investigations of the moralities that are applied respectively by the rich and by the poor, are contributing importantly to our understanding of society, of politics, of law, and of economics.
“This research found that “Upper-class … individuals were more likely to endorse beliefs that social class is an inherent, stable, and biologically determined social category relative to their lower-class … counterparts. Moreover, this pattern emerged after accounting for both political attitudes and material resource measures of social class. … Beliefs that society is fair and just explained the tendency among upper-class … individuals to endorse essentialist [biological] beliefs about social class.” Thus: the richer and more educated a person was, the more that he thought the world is just, and the more he attributed his being upper-class to his supposed inborn superiority, rather than to the circumstance of his having been born from rich parents who possessed the money to send him to college and perhaps to an expensive university.”
“Rich and educated people were more supportive of punishment as a means of retribution; poor and uneducated people were more supportive of punishment as a means of reforming the criminal and of (via fines, etc.) restoring to the victims what they had lost from the crime. “Moreover, relationships among social class rank, essentialist beliefs, and punitive judgments could not be accounted for by measures of individuals’ material resources or political orientation.” In other words: even “liberal” rich tend to be more favorable to retribution than are “liberal” poor.
In summary: “Upper-class … individuals would be more likely to endorse essentialist lay theories of social class categories (i.e., that social class is founded in genetically based, biological differences) than would lower-class … individuals and … these beliefs would decrease support for restorative justice — which seeks to rehabilitate offenders, rather than punish unlawful action.” http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Rich-and-Educated-Beli-by-Eric-Zuesse-Deficit-funded-Tax-Cuts-To-Wealthy_Spread-The-Wealth_WEALTH-VS-ALTRUISM-IN-POLITICS_Wealth-Concentration-131202-193.html
Reading the above I think one can begin to limn the outlines of the motivation of the Koch Brothers and their allies. If you give it some thought it makes sense that rich people, especially the Koch Brothers would feel the way they do and act on it. By virtue of their birth they are wealthy beyond belief. They have lived lives where those around them cater to them. They have attended schools surrounded by others from their social class and they have no real experience when it comes to what life is like for the average person. When Mitt Romney gave the advice to college graduates to borrow $20,000 from their father and start a business he was being totally sincere. His father gave him $10 million to start Bain Capital after all. When I first started driving, one of my friends who came from a wealthy and indulgent family, asked me when I asked him to chip in for gas: “Why don’t you have your father give you a credit card, like mine does.” From his life experience how was he to know that my father couldn’t get a credit card for himself, much less give one to me. How then is someone born to great wealth able to understand what it is like to be born without their privileges? To someone like that poverty is merely an abstract concept.
Social Commentator Chris Hedges has even a more jaundiced view of the wealthy stemming from his childhood experiences living and going to school among them:
“Because we don’t understand the pathology of the rich. We’ve been saturated with cultural images and a kind of cultural deification of wealth and those who have wealth. We are being–you know, they present people of immense wealth as somehow leaders–oracles, even. And we don’t grasp internally what it is an oligarchic class is finally about or how venal and morally bankrupt they are. We need to recover the language of class warfare and grasp what is happening to us, and we need to shatter this self-delusion that somehow if, as Obama says, we work hard enough and study hard enough, we can be one of them. The fact is, the people who created the economic mess that we’re in were the best-educated people in the country–Larry Summers, a former president of Harvard, and others. The issue is not education. The issue is greed. And I, unfortunately, had the experience of being shipped off to a private boarding school at the age of ten as a scholarship student and live–I was one of 16 kids on scholarship, and I lived among the super-rich and I watched them. And I think much of my hatred of authority and my repugnance for the ruling elite comes from having been among them for so long.”
“People don’t understand the elite schools, even at the high school level, that they get–the kids get excellent educations, but they learn the whole culture of hundreds or thousands of years of how to rule. And a deep, rich understanding of it. Not only that and George Bush is a perfect example of that. Well, not so much an example of deep, rich understanding, but of how–you know, affirmative action for the rich. And I came–certainly my mother’s side of the family–from lower working class. I mean, people–one of my uncles lived in a trailer in Maine, and certainly people with no means. And I would juxtapose the world I was in with that world. And it was very clear that it wasn’t about intelligence or aptitude.
The fact is, if you’re poor, you only get one chance. If you’re wealthy like Bush, you get chance after chance after chance after chance. So you’re a C student at Andover, and you go to Yale, and you go to Harvard Business School, and you’re AWOL from your National Guard unit, and you’re a cokehead, and it doesn’t really matter. You don’t even really have a job till you’re 40 and you become president of the United States.
So that was what was particularly insidious, how those small, tight elite oligarchic circles perpetuated themselves and promoted mediocrity (because many of these people like Bush are very mediocre human beings) at the expense of the rest of us, and how with money they game the system. And, of course, now we live in an oligarchic state where we’ve been rendered utterly powerless, and the judiciary, the legislative, the executive branches all subservient to an oligarchic corporate elite. And the press is owned by an oligarchic corporate elite, which makes sure that any critique of them is never broadcast over the airwaves.” http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11150
Chris Hedges is somewhat more polemical than I am. Although I come from a lower middle class background, with a father who had been in prison, I have had many wealthy friends in my life. Among them are people I still love and cherish. More than a few came from circumstances humbler than my own to achieve financial success in this world. Rather than begrudge their success I admire it and feel good for them. Some of my friends were born to moderate wealth, but have the insight to see that those less privileged than themselves are also deserving of consideration. Neither of those categories can be seen as representative of the “Rich” I’m discussing here. The fact is that I would have had no occasion in my life to meet, or become friends with people such as the Koch Brothers. The circles in which we travel are so completely different as to be analogous to different planets. In any event it is not my purpose to demonize those such as the Koch’s, but to understand their motivations so that their hold on power which has resulted in class warfare can be fought. An apt question for me would be, given the above, how do I differentiate between being wealthy and being rich enough to be beyond the reach of social norms? Being in fact wealthy enough to create one’s own social norms. My own rough dividing line, with some possible exceptions, is that if you are worth more than $100 million then you are in the league I’m talking about. However, even that standard deserves a caveat.
Robinson Cano, the All Star Second Baseman for the New York Yankees just signed a contract with the Seattle Mariners for $150 million. Alex Rodriguez the team’s putative Third Baseman in working on a contract that has earned him well over $100 million and the contract of Derek Jeter the shortstop is also in the $100 million range. Yet neither of these players will ever have the influence on world affairs of those who I am dealing with. The reason is that the equation of the “rich and powerful” must be tempered by social class considerations. In our society professional athletes may make fortunes, but they are never taken seriously for their wealth. Yet the owners of professional sports teams are taken seriously and even esteemed. This is proven by the public’s disdain by athletes who use their skills to bargain successfully for lucrative contracts. The sympathy of the public has been shown to be overwhelmingly against the athlete and for ownership. The reason is that the athlete is not considered by the general public to be in the same class as the multi-billionaire owner. The athlete is of the “blue collar” class, while the owner is considered a “patrician”. This is a real social distinction that cannot be discounted in examining this subject.
Another factor that I think needs to be taken into account when one looks beyond the “symptoms” of economic class warfare in this country is religion. We know that many of those of wealth who are the greatest antagonists in class warfare in this country are on the surface deeply religious people. How can some devout Christians for instance, based on Jesus’ teachings, believe that the poor and meek should suffer? Let us again turn to the example of Mitt Romney for guidance. Romney, the scion of a very prominent Mormon family was brought up in a world of privilege, living a quite blessed life. Is it any stretch of the imagination to believe that he sees himself and his class as being blessed by God? Why would Mitt doubt that it is through God’s intervention that he is living such a perfect life? Conversely, it is no strain of that kind of logic to see the poor as unworthy and unproductive because the evidence is that they have received little of God’s blessings. Thus when Romney was surreptitiously recorded telling an appreciative audience of people from similarly wealthy backgrounds that “47% of the people in this country are unproductive”, he was also connoting that they deserved their fates. With human’s pervasive tendency to be self-justifying it is quite natural to see the benefits you personally perceived as evidence of not only a “greater plan”, but as further evidence that you are someone who is “above” the ordinary individual.
The feeling that you as an individual have been “singled out” by God has real consequences in a person’s behavior, since if they have “God’s Blessings”, then their actions would be those condoned by God. The fact that almost all organized religion has enjoyed a symbiotic relationship with wealth and power is also not to be dismissed, in that organized religion has long bestowed blessings upon those already privileged. Let’s look at some of the consequences of this today. For one writer the answer to the question of whether the wealth lie, steal and cheat more than the rest of us is:
“yes” — in certain circumstances. The research supporting this conclusion was not conducted by Occupy Wall Street, but at the University of California, Berkeley, where social psychologist Paul Piff and a team of graduate students devised a series of experiments to assess the effect of wealth on ethical behavior. Their paper, published at the end of February in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, suggests that the rich are more likely to cut corners than others when confronted with a number of ethical challenges.”
After detailing the studies the author goes on to write:
“The study also tested people’s willingness to accept better grades than they had earned, to lie to job applicants in order to earn a larger bonus, even to pilfer candy from a jar meant for children. In all cases, the wealthier you were the more likely you were to behave badly.
So what’s the deal — are the rich less ethical than the rest of us? Not necessarily, according to Piff. But they do have a greater sense of personal entitlement. If you have money, you come to see it as your due. The affluent view wealth as a virtue, and their own wealth as proof of their own hard work and innate worth. They are rich, in other words, because (in their own minds at least) they deserve it.
And because their feeling of self worth are tied to their ability to acquire wealth, the rich often feel driven to continue to do so — long after their most lavish material desires are met. The insane feeding frenzy on Wall Street prior to the crash may be less about greed than a species of machismo. Money, for the rich, is not just a medium to purchase things; it is a measure of status in that rarefied world where you are judged by the heft of your take home pay.
“It’s not that the rich are innately bad,” Piff said, “but as you rise in the ranks — whether as a person or a nonhuman primate — you become more self-focused.”
And also isolated, cut off from others and from the standards of the community at large, the study concluded. Unlike the poor, who have to rely on their network of friends, family and neighbors to help them get through tough economic times, wealth buys one a certain independence from others. The rich don’t have to make the same compromises and accommodations as the rest of us do. They are accustomed to getting their own way. They are also used to getting away with things. Witness the bafflement, then outrage on Wall Street when it was suggested that the big wheels there who had acted fraudulently should be held criminally accountable for their misdeeds.
Living in a bubble of extreme wealth also fosters what has been called “the compassion deficit.” As one gets richer, it becomes increasingly difficult to identify with those in need. Romney’s statement that he was not worried about the poor, because they are protected by the safety net is a case in point. As the income gap widens, many are losing their ability even to imagine what life might be like on the other side of the divide.” http://www.opednews.com/articles/Do-the-Wealthy-Lie-Cheat-by-Richard-Schiffman-120418-742.html
Yet another study bears out these findings as presented in the abstract from the study:
“Seven studies using experimental and naturalistic methods reveal that upper-class individuals behave more unethically than lower-class individuals. In studies 1 and 2, upper-class individuals were more likely to break the law while driving, relative to lower-class individuals. In follow-up laboratory studies, upper-class individuals were more likely to exhibit unethical decision-making tendencies (study 3), take valued goods from others (study 4), lie in a negotiation (study 5), cheat to increase their chances of winning a prize (study 6), and endorse unethical behavior at work (study 7) than were lower-class individuals. Mediator and moderator data demonstrated that upper-class individuals’ unethical tendencies are accounted for, in part, by their more favorable attitudes toward greed.” (Note some of these studies are referenced in the quote above) http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/02/21/1118373109.abstract
Finally there is this abstract of a study published in “The American Journal of Psychiatry” about the psyches of the children of the super-rich:
“Because they have little parental contact, many children of the very rich lack self-esteem and clear role models, resulting in shallow values and pathological narcissism. Low self-awareness and the absence of great suffering work against therapeutic progress, as do the efforts of the parents, who may feel threatened, and countertransference feelings of envy or anger by middle-class therapists. A supportive psychotherapeutic relationship is the most likely means of developing trust and self-discipline in these patients.” http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=156685
Those who have ready many of my past guest blogs are quite familiar where I stand on the issue of class warfare. What I have been confronted with from some commenter’s in the past is well you’ve described the issue what should we do about it. This post is the beginning of my answering those questions because I think before suggesting solutions we must understand the real problem and spread that understanding as far and wide as possible. For further perspective on the need to spread the message I offer this perspective from an author who uses the love for Dicken’s “A Christmas Carol” and Schulz’s “Charlie Brown who keeps thinking that Lucy will hold the ball for him to kick” as metaphors for mistaken liberal beliefs on how to confront their opposition:
“Todayʼs liberals and progressives, comprising the Democratic Party, still believe the American conservative who espouses a free market-I got mine-you get yours philosophy can be changed if only shown the damage such a viewpoint engenders. They believe the Dickensian myth that care for others and love of social justice lies just below the surface of callous disregard for the common good. This Charlie Brown naivete pervades the political establishment on the left. Along with their profits, the conservative money-making machine takes this passive hopefulness to the bank, an asset in the painting of the left as creating an underclass of the lazy and dependent. The establishment left is manifestly afraid of conflict and believes that reason, carefully pressed in the service of political argument, can sway their opponents. When Harry Reid finally invoked “the nuclear option,” the reaction from the right was one of disbelief. The left was acting against its own myth of influencing change by reason and sentiment.
Despite Dickens, change did not come to mid-19th century English society through the conversion of the moneyed classes to altruism. It came about through struggle and vision of how economic and technological forces could be used to temper the power and greed of those who would hold onto wealth at the cost of a depressed and growing underclass. What did change Scrooge was his own loneliness in regard to his inability to convince others of the rightness of dismissing a concern for others in the pursuit of wealth. Without Marley to share his philosophy of greed, he became a victim of his own self-doubt. Perhaps Dickens, in fooling us into believing people change of their own accord, did point out a truth that the soft “Charlie Brown” like left could learn in dealing with money obsessed right. Do not be afraid to use power in isolating them in their own obsession. If you want change, then you must become the agent of change. Charlie Brown never did get this central fact of life. He goes on living with disappointment engendered by the hope Lucy will change. Lucy, in her craftiness, realizes she can go on enjoying her one-upping of Charlie Brown by enticing him to hope she will change and become cooperatively nice. She knows it is not going to happen. Change is the responsibility of the one wanting change.
The promise of hope and change proclaimed in the 2008 elections has been blocked by an unchanging minority in the legislative branch of government with the collusion of moneyed interests and gerrymandered voting blocs. Hoping for change will change little or nothing. It is the hopers who must change finding the courage to risk upsetting the recalcitrant opponents of a fairer and more just society. Take the ball away from the Lucy’s and use a tee or find someone else who can be trusted to hold the ball in place.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-cebik/ebenezer-scrooge-and-lucy_b_4434656.html
When it comes to confronting the reality of class warfare in the United States which is creating an ever widening gap between rich and poor I tend to agree with the author Ron Cebik above. Those who would create a feudal corporate society and turn most of us into serfs will not easily relinquish their power, since as I’ve tried to show they believe that they not only have a right to it, but that they are the only ones competent to hold it. If, as I do, you want to create a just society that feels and acts as if we are all inter-connected, then we all must confront the notion that wealth comes as a blessing from above and that because of that is sacrosanct. The sad seamy truth is that far too often the seeds of great wealth have been sown in a soil of corruption and the fruits of it are quite bitter. The super rich among us are not virtuous people, but unfortunately they do not have the insight to see this about themselves. We must disabuse them of their false notions by clarifying the nature of their game.
Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger
Further articles of interest on this subject:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-moyers/class-war_b_4432261.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-silver/jim-himes-hr-992-corruption_b_4426121.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/we-have-met-the-enemy-and_b_4437294.html
Well said Tony C. The amazing part to me is that taxes have gone down for all those wealthy people who are complaining about taxes being too high.
Rafflaw – Shame on you. They may have lowered income taxes a bit for the rich but the overall tax rates on the rich are much higher today than most times in our history.
I don’t really understand the infatuation with the rich and taxation amongst your fellow socialists. Even if you taxed them much harder, it would not put a dent in the various government budgets.
Focusing on the irrelevant and ignoring the important.
Bron says: Maybe if you people quit taxing the living bejabbers out of people they would have some money in their pocket and the economy would be better.
No, they wouldn’t have any money in their pocket, they’d probably have none because any “extra” would be eaten up on tolls on roads that were not free, protection services because police were not free, and oppression, lost lives, and illness. Justice and fairness and protection from oppression would only go to the highest bidder, which means the wealthy would always win. Welcome to Plutocracy combined with rule by the smartest, baddest murdering psychopath in the country, your new King.
New Study Finds Wal-Mart’s Miserly Wages Cost Taxpayers
(2004)
http://www.ilsr.org/new-study-finds-walmarts-miserly-wages-cost-taxpayers/
Excerpt:
California taxpayers are spending $86 million a year providing healthcare and other public assistance to the state’s 44,000 Wal-Mart employees, according to a new study by UC Berkeley’s Institute for Industrial Relations.
The study, “Hidden Cost of Wal-Mart Jobs,” found that the average Wal-Mart worker required $730 in taxpayer-funded healthcare and $1,222 in other forms of assistance, such as food stamps and subsidized housing, to get by.
Even compared to other retailers, Wal-Mart imposes an especially large burden on taxpayers. Wal-Mart workers earn 31 percent less than the average for workers at large retail companies (more than 1,000 employees), the study found, and require 39 percent more in public assistance.
*****
New Data Show How Big Chains Free Ride on Taxpayers at the Expense of Responsible Small Businesses
6/7/13
http://www.ilsr.org/chains-walmart-foods-free-ride-taxpayers-expense-responsible-small-businesses/
Excerpt:
It costs the Old Town Bike Shop in Colorado Springs about $24,000 a year to provide health insurance for four employees, according to owner John Crandall. Meanwhile, his largest competitors, Walmart and Target, foist much of their health care costs onto taxpayers, according to new data released by Massachusetts, Missouri, and Wisconsin.
By leaning on taxpayers, these chains are gaining an unfair financial advantage over more responsible businesses. “It’s disturbing,” said Crandall, who added that paying for health insurance was especially difficult last year when the shop didn’t turn a profit.
Data published by the state of Massachusetts reveal that Walmart has 4,327 employees — approximately one-quarter of its workforce — enrolled in the state’s Medicaid program or one of two other publicly subsidized health insurance programs. Insuring these employees and their dependents costs taxpayers $14.6 million a year. Target has an even larger share — more than one-third of its Massachusetts workforce, or 2,610 people — enrolled.
Elaine: The solution is rather simple. Get back to full employment and employers will be forced to pay higher wages to get quality people.
If you continue to tax productivity, surviving employers will however continue to be forced to take it from employees. Only the very strongest employers will survive and they will have their pick from millions to employ, with the ability to pay them low salaries because jobs are so scarce and people will except less. It’s not rocket science and really pretty simple math.
We are almost giving these large companies monopoly powers because smaller businesses just can’t compete with the economy of scale that affords the larger companies.
Look at how the size of government has grown over the last four decades, there are less and less small business and large businesses buying up everyone along the way and dominating their respective sectors. Large stores like WalMart, Kmart, Staples, Office Depo, Home Depo, and Costco have replaced multiple smaller businesses in their respective sectors. Only the very largest companies have the economies of scale to survive. Large companies and franchises now dominate most sectors of our economy. This is not caused by capitalism as many are led to believe. Quite to the contrary, it is just the opposite and sadly this is being done on purpose by the ruling oligarchy.
They are using the vary concepts you believe in to mislead you and other into believing that they will improve the prosperity of the majority, when they are using these concepts just to gain more wealth. The ruling oligarchy, as you have seen from the Republican Party, do not want people like Ron Paul getting into power, promoting true capitalism and why they did almost everything they could to stop his campaign from being successful. The ruling oligarchs within the Republican Party lied, cheated and mislead the voters to stop Ron Paul from being nominated. Isn’t that interesting when he is a Laissez-faire conservative Republican. Have we not been misled by the Republican Party to believing that they are in favor of free markets. Obviously they are liars and hypocrites.
Elaine:
they pay their people paltry wages because of government regulations and tax requirements.
Maybe if you people quit taxing the living bejabbers out of people they would have some money in their pocket and the economy would be better.
Elaine:
I dont idolize the ultra wealthy. Many of them are progressives who work on Wall St and take money from the middle class.
I shop at Costco and dont care much for Wal Mart. But Wal Mart has more than just entry level retail jobs, in fact they pay their warehouse people more than Amazon does.
How come you arent b*tching about that? I bet if you had Wal Mart stock and had worked for them for 30 years you would have a nice retirment.
An $8/hour job isnt meant to raise a family on, go get some skills and educate yourself, quit having babies and stay married. Just that small bit of advice will improve your financial position a great deal.
This pope is a real POW. Jesus is weeping.
Bron wrote: “This pope is a real POW. Jesus is weeping.”
I think we have to cut Pope Francis a little slack because he grew up in Argentina where all the Nazi’s fled after World War II. That country has had a history of dictatorship in government with a lot of corruption. Pope Francis was right in the middle of all that and has not experienced the America that you and I have come to know and love.
Furthermore, we do have to acknowledge that there is a force of nature working upon the wealthy that causes them to oppress the poor. This seems to me to be a self-evident fact. It is demonstrated by how most all our governmental leaders are wealthy and love to pass laws to oppress the rest of us. It seems to me that Pope Francis addresses this aspect, and perhaps he is just ignorant of the benefits of a capitalistic system because he has not lived in America where there are at least some remnants of that once great economic system.
Bron,
Oh, good grief. It’s many big corporations who like to pay their workers paltry wages…so they can make bigger profits. Why would they build factories in third world countries…if not for a cheaper work force there? And why do so many people who are employed by Wal-mart qualify for food stamps and Medicaid? Remember, too, that some of the folks on Wall Street still think greed is good.
Blame the poor….blame the progressives…blame the liberals…blame the Democrats….blame the pope and the Catholic Church–all the while idolizing the ultra wealthy and corporate bigwigs who only care about themselves and/or their profits..
Elaine M wrote: “why do so many people who are employed by Wal-mart qualify for food stamps and Medicaid?”
This is just a mathematical effect of the fact that Walmart is the largest employer and the government is overly generous with these benefits. If the second largest employer had 100% of their employees on Medicaid and food stamps, Walmart would still beat them in having more people on food stamps and Medicaid. It is just too easy to pick on Walmart because of their size and high number of entry level positions for workers. We should be praising Walmart for employing so many, not tearing them down with silly, meaningless criticisms based more upon our government’s zealousness to give out free benefits than Walmart’s lack of providing high paying jobs.
it is the same reason the pope said what he said, the RCC needs the poor to be poor.
DavidM:
Progressives love the poor, its why they want to keep them poor. If there werent any poor, the progressives would have no reason for living/being.
They have a vested interest in keeping people poor, it is the root source of their power.
Some challenges of today’s world [52-75]
No to an economy of exclusion [53-54]
No to the new idolatry of money [55-56]
No to a financial system which rules rather than serves [57-58]
No to the inequality which spawns violence [59-60]
Some cultural challenges [61-67]
Challenges to inculturating the faith [68-70]
Challenges from urban cultures [71-75]
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/26/pope_francis_capitalism_is_a_new_tyranny/
Tuesday, Nov 26, 2013 01:08 PM EST
Pope Francis: Capitalism is “a new tyranny”
“The culture of prosperity deadens us,” the pope writes in a document laying out the platform for his papacy
Katie Mcdonough
also video:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2013/11/27/n-pope-francis-capitalism-critique-impersonal-economy.cnnmoney/index.html
skip,
This is what you wrote:
hskiprob 1, December 18, 2013 at 10:44 pm
Elaine M.
I think the parents who have children should sweep the floors or pay somebody else to do it.
*****
I replied:
Now…there’s logic for you. The parents don’t have enough money for food…but they should pay somebody to sweep the floors at their child’s school.
*****
Tell me, please, where the parents of children who receive free or reduced lunch because of their financial circumstances will get money to pay people to sweep floors in their children’s schools. And, by the way, how would you propose to make arrangements for outside help to come into school buildings to sweep floors when the schools already have custodial help?
hskip:
“I think it would be good for the wealthier kids to sweep the floors while not making the poorer kids do it. It would teach them that this is what they are going to have to do for the rest of their life, so get used to it.”
Its all about diversity.
I think the “wealthy” should then give money to the poor kids for lunch.
Darren:
I just read your post and agree.
Elaine:
I think people who work are barely able to keep their heads above water because of the economic incompetence of most of the people who make the laws regulating our economy. And of course the tax burden many people labor under.
Darren:
I think I was wrong about the children working for their lunch money. Upon further reflection, it is not their fault they are in poverty and they would probably be ridiculed by their peers.
But I still think adults who receive welfare should do something within the community if it is only to help put groceries away for an elderly person.
Hilarious joke Blouise!
hskiprob 1, December 18, 2013 at 10:44 pm
Elaine M.
I think the parents who have children should sweep the floors or pay somebody else to do it.
*****
Now…there’s logic for you. The parents don’t have enough money for food…but they should pay somebody to sweep the floors at their child’s school. Might as well put the school custodians out of work…while we’re at it
Lots of adults work full time and are still poor. Yet, you and some others believe that there are millions of children living in poverty and millions of Americans who are struggling to keep their heads above water financially…because they’re a bunch of lazy losers.
And let us all not forget that children are hungry and live in dire circumstances today only because of government regulation and taxes. Then why do so many conservatives complain that there are people in this country who don’t pay income taxes? They should hold those people up as their standard bearers!
Elaine, Talk about logic. I cannot afford a maid, so I clean my own house. I cannot afford lawn care, so I cut and maintain my own lawn. If parents have children they cannot afford to educate, why can’t they trade services. That is one of the ways in which the real world works.
It is the parents who are being irresponsible for having children they cannot afford to educate, so it is the parents who should be responsible for sweeping the floors. Let’s force other people who are being responsible to pay for those parents who are not; isn’t that the fascist’s dream society?
However, if all children participated in sweeping the floors, no one would be ridiculed. We wouldn’t what our children to be ridiculed by their peers, would we? That would be bullying by the wealthy.
I worked as a mechanic in a motorcycle shop in Reno NV, years back and every morning, every employee was required to help sweep the entire parking lot. It was in the desert, so blowing sands required this to be done.
God forbid, we get people to work for what they receive in benefits.
Oky1,
My apologies and I did worry about your feelings a bit when writing the joke but Texas/Oklahoma was always the way I heard it. Given the fact that coyotes have managed to adapt to the environment in almost all states, any two states sharing a border would do, so feel free to amend.
Off for Christmas travels so over and out.
Lotta:
Thank you, it’s good to be finally back here, and to read your comments as well.
Darren, Have I mentioned lately that I am glad you have returned? I soooo am.
Now that was funny Blouise