We have been discussing how Democratic leaders like Hillary Clinton called on foreign countries to pass censorship laws to prevent Elon Musk from restoring free speech protections on Twitter. The EU has responded aggressively to warn Musk not to allow greater free speech or face crippling fines and even potential criminal enforcement. After years of using censorship-by-surrogates in social media companies, Democratic leaders seem to have rediscovered good old-fashioned state censorship.
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.) declared Musk’s pledge to restore free speech values on social media as threatening Democracy itself. She has promised that “there are going to be rules” to block such changes. She is not alone. Former President Obama has declared “regulation has to be part of the answer” to disinformation.
For her part, Hillary Clinton is looking to Europe to fill the vacuum and called upon her European counterparts to pass a massive censorship law to “bolster global democracy before it’s too late.”
New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern recently repeated this call for global censorship at the United Nations to the applause of diplomats and media alike.
EU censors have assured Democratic leaders that they will not allow free speech to break out on Twitter regardless of the wishes of its owner and customers.
One of the most anti-free speech figures in the West, EU’s Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton has been raising the alarm that Twitter users might be able to read uncensored material or hear unauthorized views.
Breton himself threatened that Twitter must “fly by [the European Union’s] rules” in censoring views deemed misleading or harmful by EU bureaucrats. Breton has been moving publicly to warn Musk not to try to reintroduce protections that go beyond the tolerance of the EU for free speech. Musk is planning to meet with the EU censors and has conceded that he may not be able resist such mandatory censorship rules.
The hope of leaders like Clinton is the anti-free speech measure recently passed by EU countries, the Digital Services Act. The DSA contains mandatory “disinformation” rules for censoring “harmful” thoughts or views.
Breton has made no secret that he views free speech as a danger coming from the United States that needs to be walled off from the Internet. He previously declared that, with the DSA, the EU is now able to prevent the Internet from again becoming a place for largely unregulated free speech, which he referred to as the “Wild West” period of the Internet.
It is a telling reference because the EU views free speech itself as an existential danger. They reject the notion of free speech as its own protection where good speech can overcome bad speech. That is viewed as the “Wild West.”
Many of us are far more fearful of global censors than some whack job spewing hateful thoughts from his basement. That is why I have described myself as an Internet Originalist:
The alternative is “internet originalism” — no censorship. If social media companies returned to their original roles, there would be no slippery slope of political bias or opportunism; they would assume the same status as telephone companies. We do not need companies to protect us from harmful or “misleading” thoughts. The solution to bad speech is more speech, not approved speech.
If Pelosi demanded that Verizon or Sprint interrupt calls to stop people saying false or misleading things, the public would be outraged. Twitter serves the same communicative function between consenting parties; it simply allows thousands of people to participate in such digital exchanges. Those people do not sign up to exchange thoughts only to have Dorsey or some other internet overlords monitor their conversations and “protect” them from errant or harmful thoughts.
The danger of the rising levels of censorship is far greater than the dangers of such absurd claims of the law or science — or in this case both. What we can do is to maximize the free discourse and expression on the Internet to allow free speech itself to be the ultimate disinfectant of disinformation.
But you voted for Clinton and Obama and now Biden – these are your people, Jonathan. It’s not evil white supremacist fascists repressing speech – it’s the thuggish Left. Just as it always does every time it gets power everywhere. When will you formally disassociate yourself from the real fascists in our society?
Says the fascist who does not tire from flogging our host.
What? “Twitter CEO Elon Musk single-handedly led a call on Tuesday with civil rights groups in an effort to assure them that he would curtail hate speech — and stop the spread of misinformation ahead of the midterm elections.” Tell me it ain’t so Joe. I thought hate speech was protected first amendment speech? And please pray tell, what is wrong with telling lies on the internet? Bummer. Here I thought Twitter would become a cesspool. Turns out, not much will change. Or will it? I’m confused.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/02/musk-twitter-hate-speech-00064690
Poor Galileo. One of the great men in Western history. But, alas, he was clearly peddling “disinformation” when he argued that the earth revolved around the sun. So much for following the science. Those in power knew better, and Galileo was tried by the Roman Inquisition, i.e., the Church, and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest. We’ve come a long way in the intervening 400 years, haven’t we? But perhaps I’m mistaken, and perhaps we should be reassured: many of those arguing for a new regime of censorship are deeply concerned about “threats to democracy.” The death of irony looms.
Poor mrs. blll! Not getting enough attention in the USA (or at “home”), so goes looking to Europeans who surrendered their national sovereignties to the EU for some kind of support. As a “policy” matter, who in the USA cares what Europeans think about free speech? This is the good old USA! that broke its ties to England hundreds of years ago!
England is no longer in the EU
What’s frightening to me is that Hillary has any “foreign corporations” or “European counterparts” that would actually listen to her as authoritative or influential.???? Yikes.
(-or did she simply learn of their efforts and then latch on to them,- in order to create the perception that she influenced them?)
More on topic, EU’s threats of fines and criminal enforcement could trigger domino-effect retaliations and counter-retaliations, and then it all could fall down, boom, n’est ce pas?
The EU is not crimping free speech because it was influenced by Hillary Clinton. It has always crimped free speech. Doing it on Twitter is just another version of what it has always done
Dennis: Thanks for your opinion, I believe (1) the EU’s “crimping of free speech” on social media actually started just a few years ago (2019), when the EU’s Court of Justice ruled that courts of all members could force social media platforms to remove content worldwide, i.e., force them to remove content in all other member countries, -even if in those other countries, the content is not illegal or prohibited. (Judgment in Case C-18/18 Eva Glawischnig-Piesczek v Facebook Ireland Limited).
(2) Your first sentence parallels what I said in my second sentence, to wit, that Hillary merely wanted to create the perception that she influenced this.
Jonathan: Some on this blog who haven’t had an original thought in years somehow have swallowed your claptrap that Musk’s acquisition of Twitter will suddenly open the floodgates to “free speech”–some mythical time of the free exchange of various opinions on diverse subjects. Instead, what we are witnessing is Musk using his platform to spread all sorts of nonsense. Musk’s first act was to peddle the false conspiracy theory that Paul Pelosi was the victim of a hammer attack by a jealous male lover. Two hours later Musk deleted his tweet as his first act of censorship–or better described as self-censorship. Hardly something that should appeal to you.
And then Musk has followed up with other moves that put Twitter’s viability into question. Advertisers are fleeing Twitter like the plague. Why? Because there has been a dramatic increase in hate speech–vulgar rhetoric aimed at people of color, anti-semitic slurs, use of the “n-word”, “k-word” and “f-word”. What advertiser would want their brand associated with such vile rhetoric? Twitter’s head of safety and integrity, who will probably soon be losing his/her job, says more than 50,000 tweets containing these slurs were posted in the first 48 hours. It’s now a racist trolling campaign on Twitter!
So what is Musk doing in response? He wants an $8 per-month verification fee from users. He originally proposed $20 per month but that got nowhere from noted authors like Steven King who balked at the idea. Besides a verification fee is not going to stop the racists and anti-semites from signing up. Musk tells subscribers: “To all complainers, please continue complaining but it will cost $8”. And Musk is reportedly planning to cut the Twitter workforce by one-quarter and those who remain are expected to work 84-hour weeks. Will those workers get overtime pay? Fat chance! Just ask the salaried workers at Tesla!
So what is the prospect that Musk’s Twitter will actually become a platform for the free exchange of “original thoughts”–as Hickdead predicts on this blog? This guy or gal actually thinks Twitter will be where “thoughts will either stand on their own merits or not”. Anyone who thinks Twitter will become the modern day version of the Athenian Forum needs a reality check–real fast!
So he is like other Twitter users?
That is hardly an indictment, you know.
I often wonder why Killery Roadkill isn’t languishing in a geriatric prison until she breathes no more.
Hilary wants another crack at Donald. Why doesn’t this witch just fly away on her broomstick.
Wait…so free speech is a threat to democracy now?
Wow.
The left is evil, that’s clear. But is ANYONE believing their lies?
(We’re a republic, not a democracy, but let’s just look at their claim)
Democracy = a system of government by the whole population.
So. If you CENSOR part of the population, whether it’s based on race, or gender, or political party affiliation or speaking out truth in the face of lies or calling on your government to redress legitimate grievances or pointing out that the Constitution and duly enacted laws, not mandates and executive orders are the law of the land….(etc.) Then you have said THAT PART OF THE POPULATION will not be heard.
Which means that NOT HAVING free speech is the threat to democracy.
And HAVING free speech ensures that all voices – the whole population – is heard.
In other words. The democrats, as usual, are WRONG in their statement. Again.
I don’t worry about the Russians or the Chinese. I worry about the WHO, the WEF and the WHO. If an organization has the word world in it, it’s a threat to our freedom.
@Independent Bob
Same here, Bob. They and their partners in our government are the ones to watch, and I don’t know how to snap Europeans out of it, they seem to be comfortable with subservience for the most part. C’est la vie. I really hope we don’t have to throw tea in the harbor again, or march aristocrats to the guillotine. One thing is clear: our founders were spot on to get the heck out of there; ultimately very little has meaningfully changed.
Growing video platform Rumble, based in the US, has refused to cave to France’s demands to censor Russian news sources such as RT France and Sputnik.
Rumble has instead chosen to pull its services from France rather than comply with the order.
“The French Government has demanded that Rumble @rumblevideo block Russian news sources. Like @elonmusk, I won’t move our goal posts for any foreign government,” Rumble CEO Chris Pavlovski tweeted.
https://reclaimthenet.org/rumble-france-blocked/
Years ago Secretary of State Condaleeza Rice made a trenchant but little noted observation. Regarding some issue with the EU she said correctly, “Europe’s values are not our values.” It is pathetic to hear US democrats parroting the totalitarian intentions of the EU today.
Nigel Farage must feel vindicated.
Robert: I have always wanted Condoleeza Rice to run for president; I would seriously consider joining her campaign. But alas, it probably will never happen. At least she remains in academia,- a real blessing for some students. Thanks for your comment.
As to US Operations complying with EU Law…..hell no!
Free speech is just that …. fair and unbiased presentations of all points of view so long as it is done in a polite respectful manner.
Anyone that argues against that is just a hi-tech Book Burner and should be treated with the greatest disdain possible.
Hillary Clinton is calling for more censorship for the basket of deplorables. Should we be surprised. This deplorables sentence did more than any other statement to cause her to lose the election. A comparable snafu was made by Terry Mcauliffe when he said that parents should be censored when it comes to the education of their children. These are the attitudes about American citizens that they have but try to hide from view. Thank you Mr. Trump for not allowing this queen of censorship to be the nations leader. Thank you Virginia for not allowing the prince of censorship to be the leader of your state. Like the EU Hillary would have prepared the gulags for those who will not cease to speak out. They say that they are trying to save Democracy but in there definition Democracy does not include our right to speak freely. It’s before your eyes if you wish to see it. You still have a voice for now.
So what recourse does Musk have?
One should check the condition of ones umbrella when one sees storm clouds approaching
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.) declared Musk’s pledge to restore free speech values on social media as threatening Democracy itself. She has promised that “there are going to be rules” to block such changes. She is not alone. Former President Obama has declared “regulation has to be part of the answer” to disinformation.
For decades the Left have controlled the narrative when it comes to America’s news media. Evidence that the Left detests “fair and balanced” reporting is found hourly on the major news sources like the Miami Herald, which has a long history of defending Communist dictators like Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. Elizabeth Warren, Barack Obama and the face of evil herself, Hillary Clinton, could not function as political liars if not for the enabling of the Leftist owned news media.
A perfect example is the difference between how the brutal attack by Democrats in Hialeah, Florida of a Republican canvasser for Marco Rubio, was and is still portrayed by the lying Leftist media vs how they characterized Paul Pelosi’s equally brutal attack by a non-political ideologue whom they ascribed political leanings. Ive been a Democrat all of my life, but for my mail-in voter ballot, I voted against Democrats for national and state political offices, because they are no longer Democrats. They are Marxists who thrive on fomenting violence, revolution and fear-monger. Today’s Democrats are the veritable threat to Democracy.
New video shows beating of Republican canvasser in Hialeah. He may soon testify in open court
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article268128747.html
Prosecutors on Tuesday released video of the beating of a Republican canvasser in Hialeah, as a judge set a hearing that may feature the victim testifying in open court. The clip was released in the case against Javier Lopez, who along with a second man is accused of beating up Christopher Monzon as he canvassed for the Republican Party in East Hialeah on Oct. 23. Lopez and Jonathan Casanova are also accused of siccing two German Shepherds on Monzon, who has claimed that the attack was politically motivated in a case that has drawn national media attention.
NB: The word Democrat never appears in the article.
Elizabeth Warren, who use to be against millionaires and billionaires has changed her tune a little. Now she’s only against billionaires, now that her and her husband are worth an estimated $12,000,000.00. Shoes on the other foot.
The most chilling thing about this post is the sentence, “The EU has responded aggressively to warn Musk not to allow greater free speech or face crippling fines and even potential criminal enforcement.” Lets put it more plainly. If you say anything that we do not agree with we will take all your money, cripple you and put you behind bars. One would think that given Europe’s history of censorship that there would be more fear of authoritarianism. The authoritarians never left they have just remained underground since the shame of Stalin and Hitler. They have just been lying in wait like a trap door spider. They now are saying to Elon Musk that his new home will be in jail if he does not comply. Rest assured the ongoing battle will never cease.
Well to be fair. The EU IS a sovereign organization with THEIR own rules. Twitter does NOT have a right to operate within THEIR sovereign domain. If Musk wants twitter to be able to operate within the EU he HAS to abide by THEIR rules. Just as he any other company that wishes to operate here. They have to abide by OUR rules. Right?
SHALL MAKE NO LAW ABRIDGING UNALIENABLE SPEECH
“The EU has responded aggressively to warn Musk not to allow greater free speech or face crippling fines and even potential criminal enforcement.”
– Professor Turley
______________
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
– Declaration of Independence, 1776
The effete and dastardly follower-leaders of Europe, leading from the rear and on the precipice of a third world war that America will again be compelled to save it from, dare to threaten the United States of America? My sense is that Real President Donald J. Trump would have communicated to the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats) across the “pond” that the most appropriate place, for their inhumane and dictatorial attacks on America and universal freedoms, is faraway up where the “sun don’t shine!”
The Founders appreciated and expounded that natural and God-given rights and freedoms existed before the creation of government and remained unalienable. Natural and God-given rights are universal and apply to the countries in Europe and every nation on Earth. That any particular government acts as tyrant and oppressor does not bear and awaits resolution. Europe cannot abridge the freedom of speech at home or abroad and it will have launched the opening salvos of a “nuclear” internecine trade war if it proceeds in that effort; a war that America will win conclusively, if not now, when Real President Donald J. Trump is elected in 2024.
Musk, as the sole party, retains the power to “claim and exercise” dominion over pertinent private property as the owner, until such time as the U.S. “takes” the property for public use.
Hillary must be detained and prosecuted for egregious incitement to subversion, sedition and insurrection.
____________________________________________________________________________________
1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
__________________________________________________________________
“[Private property is] that dominion which one man claims and exercises over the external things of the world, in exclusion of every other individual.”
– James Madison
The constitution has no jurisdiction over the EU.
Well, DUHHH!
Grassyass, Seengyor Einstein.
Geeeez!
Is su EU in the universe?
And we care about what the EU thinks because….?
Jim22, we should care about what the EU says because they have the power to enslave those who will not comply. When they call for criminal enforcement they mean what they say. They tell us that if it requires concentration camps to house all the dissidents they are prepared to do what they have to do. You may say that it couldn’t go that far but there where many who said the same thing in Europe in 1930. Do you think that the EU will hesitate to carry out its threats? When someone tells you who they are you need to believe them.
Does twitter have a right to operate as it sees fit within the EU? Why shouldn’t Twitter abide by their rules? It’s their sovereign territory why shouldn’t they be able tell Twitter what they can or cannot do there?
Svelaz, I have to agree with you. The EU can make their own rules but so can China. It would seem that you would be concerned with freedom and would say that their rules are oppressive but you don’t. It is obvious that you believe that it is the natural order of things for the strong to be in control of the weak and not allow them to speak to represent their opinions. It goes deeper than a shallow answer about what the EU can or cannot do. In the south in our nation the slave states could make their own rules that did not allow the black man to speak. Just because the EU and the slave owners in the south could make their own rules it doesn’t make it moral.
Thinkitthrough, no, what you’re doing is making a false equivalency. The south was not an independent nation it was still part of the United States. They tried to secede. Obviously they didn’t succeed.
The EU is governed as a collective body with with the member states that are in agreement as a whole. Even the British won’t accept twitter as musk wants it to be.
I do not understand – I thought you told us all that pre musk we all had to accept twitter as it was – the EU and UK included – and that it was wrong for TX., FL or the US congress to try to constraint twitter.
But now with Musk is in charge – your claims that Twitter can do as it pleases no longer are true ?
You were not OK with TX and FL regulating SM, but you are OK with the EU and UK doing so ?
Alas, alas for you
Lawyers and Pharisees
Hypocrites to a man
Sons of the dogs who murdered the prophets
Finishing off what your fathers began
You don’t have time to scorn and to scoff
It’s getting very late!
Vengeance doesn’t wait!
You snakes, you viper’s brood
You cannot escape being Devil’s food!
I send you prophets, I send you preachers
Sages and rages and ages of teachers
Nothing can bar your mood
Blind guides, blind fools
The blood you spilt
On you will fall!
This nation, this generation
Will bear the guilt of it all!
Alas, alas alas for you!
Blind fools!!
It is not accurate to say that the EU has “sovereign territory.” It is an organization founded upon treaties among the national states that have joined it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union. If EU forces censorship of Twitter, it will be interesting to see if there is some push-back from member states. There are already right-wing parties in some countries pushing for withdrawal from the EU.
Svelaz has never left his mancave never mind visited Europe. He only posts what is fed to him from his google searches as compensated by his handlers
Visit Italy. The regions within the country are as diverse and entrenched as Madrid is from Barcelona, Austin TX to Chicago, IL, Miami from Tallahassee.
The EU was a disastrous decision and thankfully collapsing
“ And we care about what the EU thinks because….?” ~ Jim22
A first glance I want to heartily agree (I did click the Like button.), but there is this stubborn and long lived belief by many – mostly the Left, that insists America be more like Europe. So the conversation becomes a must since so many seem to think ‘across The Pond’ is best. They insist what’s in the EU be what’s in the US.
We might “hear unauthorized views”–You mean like ideas of how to handle covid care by Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and Scott Atlas that might be good ideas but were “unauthorized views?” Or Mother Elizabeth Warren saying there are going to be “rules”–can’t you just hear the tone of her voice. By reading and researching, we learn. And I am sure people can tell who the nutcases are. BTW, shutting down the nutcases, only puts them further in the basement and authorities have difficulty weeding them out or it takes longer; and then the damage is done! I don’t use twitter. I don’t use tik tok. People on those platforms seem to want to be seen, to be known. After all they have now been given a name “influencers”. And, I am finding headlines that many “young influencers” are found dead–Why? There recently has been a political ad by Hillary Clinton that I question–She seems to be sensationalizing a subject. In whose humble opinion is her viewpoint “authorized?” Maybe if they got back to work fixing the tax laws on the books that people are legally allowed to use and the immigration laws, things would be better off.
A quick read of the comments suggests that most Americans do not grasp what the EU is, or that Europe is a generalization that is misleading. Italians are not Spaniards, Czechs are not Slovaks, Croats are not Dutch, and Danes are definitely not German, nor, for that matter, are most Austrians.
The EU consists of 27 states coexisting in a very strange structure which is most like a bureaucratic dictatorship.
The European Commission, which can initiate law and enforces it, is not elected; its members are appointed. In effect, bureaucrats craft and initiate all of the EU’s laws and regulations. That is why the British left; they wanted to make their own laws and regulations.
The European Parliament (which regularly migrates between two cities) can only reject or rubber stamp, and its members tend to be elected in national elections in which 20-30 percent actually vote. That is why Farage was able to get elected and irritate the center-left of the Parliament; his supporters in the UK were committed and passionate, so they voted. Most Brits did not bother.
In short, neither institution is representative. Von der Leyen, head of the EU, was appointed after apparently failing to find anyone to vote for her in Germany.
Nor is the EU Council representative; it consists of foreign ministers and prime ministers who usually do not represent the opinions of more than 30 percent of their citizens, because to ‘win’ an election in the EU is to gain a plurality, not a majority, of votes, and the party with the plurality gets to fill the highest cabinet posts. So Merkel could still ‘win’ an election with 30 percent of the vote in Germany when she was in power (sixteen years or so, only outdone by that Russian dude).
In the EU, ‘rule of law’ means conforming to thousands of petty regulations, some good, some not, and pleasing the EU Commission. Orban has regularly ‘outraged’ the EU by winning elections against the “Left,” passing laws in Hungary that rankle the woke on the Commission, and otherwise insisting on Hungary’s sovereign as an independent state which did not give up its sovereignty when it entered the EU. In practice, alas, it did exactly that, which is why it is ironic that many believe that by entering the EU, the Ukraine will protect its sovereignty from Russia. Nothing could be further from the reality in the EU.
As for free speech, it is a fond wish rather than a reality, which is why the powers that be in the EU had fits when Meloni was elected. While she is not a “fascist,” she is an Italian nationalist, much like those in power in Poland and Hungary, so she believes (at least publicly) in the nation state, religion, family, and other old-fashioned concepts.
Neither the EU nor the UK (once more a sovereign nation state able to make its own laws and regulations) have anything like the first amendment. The EU has no constitution; it has the Maastricht treaty, passed after it proved impossible to get members to ratify a constitution, a sort of diplomatic coup d’etat.
So Clinton did not even have to lobby Brussels; they were never going to allow free speech. Heck, they do not allow any of the ‘feeds’ to Russian media, although they are happy to give Zelensky lots of air time.
Hope that helps a bit . . . to frame the comments and Musk’s chances of cutting a deal to make Twitter a free speech platform in the EU. Ain’t gonna happen.
The European commission does not just draft and create laws and everyone else must follow them. They are also voted on by member states before the laws are ratified. England made a huge mistake with Brexit and they are already regretting it. It was the biggest self harming policy in their entire history.
I simplified slightly, but not much. In practice, the Commission proposes, the Council agrees, the Parliament rubber stamps. The UK left because the majority of its citizens wanted their sovereignty back. That has proven more difficult than it appeared. The Greeks learned that several years ago, and suffered a great deal as a result
You might want to consult the EU on the process. A link.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/adopting-eu-law_en#the-role
National parliaments have a consultative role.
Note that treaties cannot be changed without unanimous consent.
The Council, not the EU or national parliaments hold the power. It is a top-down organization.
I live in the EU. Believe me, only EU supporters believe it is a benevolent democracy. Most people just go along.
Same with the Euro, which primarily benefits Germany, which is why that is the only place you will see monuments to the currency.
The EU is striving to replace the old Soviet Union because that worked so well.
Well, it is a ‘left-wing’ project, so you are not far off the mark.
But does that also mean NATO is the new Warsaw Pact.
Food for thought?
I don’t know. But the Germans can’t contribute much because they have been letting us carry the defense load for decades and now they are buying wood burning stoves and firewood because they let a teenage girl from Sweden set their energy policies. Funny, there is a bright side report that they are knocking down a wind farm to expand a coal mine. They forgot that they can’t restart things simply by flipping a switch. I am hoping they have a cold winter and an invigorating dose of reality.
Germany must be weaned from the delusions of communist grandeur of the barren, woman without a raison d’être other than the pursuit of personal power for personal power’s sake, East Germany-raised and steeped in, and full blown communist, Angela Merkel.
It worked so well, from the atrocious, barbaric, futile and inane, wholesale slaughter of the Romanovs to Ronald Reagan’s “Wall” and “Evil Empire” demolition.
Communism was a murderous, fatal mistake; it took Americans 75 years to grasp that and the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) never have.
Those communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) are eminently decorous and admirable, aren’t they?
I only wish that Muck could somehow just give them a good ole Bronx cheer