This week, we saw another incident of protesters shutting down an event to prevent others from hearing opposing views. At an event with commentator and author Ann Coulter, one protester yelled “Your words are violence.” It is the latest example of how some on the left are treating free speech as harm on college campuses. Unlike many other incidents, however, Cornell has stood by the right of the student group, Network of Enlightened Women, to hold the event and pledged to hold students accountable for the cancellation of the speech.
Joel Malina, vice president for University Relations at Cornell, told Campus Reform.“Eight college-age individuals were removed from the auditorium following Cornell protocols. All Cornell students among the disrupters will be referred for conduct violations.” He also apologized to Coulter.
Cornell is to be commended for its stance, particularly if it proceeds with appropriate sanctions for these students. The incident also shows the value of limiting these events to faculty and students of Cornell, who are subject to rules protecting free speech and open discourse on campus.
We have previously discussed the worrisome signs of a rising generation of censors in the country as leaders and writers embrace censorship and blacklisting. The latest chilling poll was released by 2021 College Free Speech Rankings after questioning a huge body of 37,000 students at 159 top-ranked U.S. colleges and universities. It found that sixty-six percent of college students think shouting down a speaker to stop them from speaking is a legitimate form of free speech. Another 23 percent believe violence can be used to cancel a speech. That is roughly one out of four supporting violence.
Faculty and editors are now actively supporting modern versions of book-burning with blacklists and bans for those with opposing political views. Others are supporting actual book burning. Columbia Journalism School Dean Steve Coll has denounced the “weaponization” of free speech, which appears to be the use of free speech by those on the right.
We discussed this issue with regard to a lawsuit against SUNY. It is also discussed in my recent law review article, Jonathan Turley, Harm and Hegemony: The Decline of Free Speech in the United States, Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. We have seen how in universities (including state schools) this can turn into a type of “heckler’s veto” where speeches are cancelled in advance or terminated suddenly due to the disruption of protesters.
This has been an issue of contention with some academics who believe that free speech includes the right to silence others. Berkeley has been the focus of much concern over the use of a heckler’s veto on our campuses as violent protesters have succeeded in silencing speakers, including a speaker from the ACLU discussing free speech. Both students and some faculty have maintained the position that they have a right to silence those with whom they disagree and even student newspapers have declared opposing speech to be outside of the protections of free speech. At another University of California campus, professors actually rallied around a professor who physically assaulted pro-life advocates and tore down their display.
In the meantime, academics and deans have said that there is no free speech protection for offensive or “disingenuous” speech. CUNY Law Dean Mary Lu Bilek showed how far this trend has gone. When conservative law professor Josh Blackman was stopped from speaking about “the importance of free speech,” Bilek insisted that disrupting the speech on free speech was free speech. (Bilek later cancelled herself and resigned after she made a single analogy to acting like a “slaveholder” as a self-criticism for failing to achieve equity and reparations for black faculty and students).
A few years ago, I debated NYU Professor Jeremy Waldron who is a leading voice for speech codes. Waldron insisted that shutting down speakers through heckling is a form of free speech. I disagree. It is the antithesis of free speech and the failure of schools to protect the exercise of free speech is the antithesis of higher education. In most schools, people are not allowed to disrupt events. They are escorted out of such events and told that they can protest outside of the events since others have a right to listen to opposing views. These disruptions however are often planned to continually interrupt speakers until the school authorities step in to cancel the event.
Recently, we have seen convocations and other important events disrupted by such protesters. Universities will have to take a stand or lose control over their campuses. Students who disrupt classes or events must be held accountable if we are to maintain open and free discourse on our campuses.
“We don’t want your ideas here! Leave! Leave! Your words are violence!” Your speech is harmful to “society norms and values.” And, of course, we are the voice of the “society.”
Apparently, those campus thugs have been reading Goldsmith and his ilk.
“Eight college-age individuals were removed from the auditorium following Cornell protocols.”
I wonder how many of those were students and how many paid outside agitators.
The left has canceled free speech on the campus and is canceling conservative votes on election day.
The left is fascist, and we hear their babble on this blog. It is mostly nonsense where they lie to get their point across.
I offer this resource as a separate post for those seeking academic halls of freedom. I understand these are released annually. rankings.thefire.org
Inmates in charge of the asylum sets a precedent.
Zero respect for others, and creates a severe threat to the individualism enshrined in our Constitution.
Discount of individual human worth is the root of all evil, slavery, the beginning not the end.
To ZZDoc
Mr. Hogg just really loves to “hog” the limelight and extend his 15 minutes of fame. Just like the unnamed Swedish Teenage climate activist who finally revealed her true spots and came out of the closet as the global socialist we all suspected that she was. That child seems to have some mental health issues but far be it for me to diagnose them. .
By the way Indiana is covered in snowflakes today. Must be some progressives weeping somewhere
RE::”Mr. Hogg just really loves to “hog”..’ I sense that things are seldom what they seem, and what will be, with this Harvard brat. We have one in the family. Takes one to know one. Hogg talks ‘proletarian’ but I smell ‘bourgeoisie’. We yet but turn another page…..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hogg
Progressives should learn the simple concept of keeping quiet and listening for a change. You always learn more with your mouth shut and your ears open. (Unless you so offend someone while talking and get a 2×4 in the mouth or something similar) When you listen you can often pick up pearls of knowledge from anyone.
I still sit and wonder of all the things I learned from high school and college students who worked in the summer with our office. New nurses taught more, as well as old nurses. Some of the greatest knowledge I ever gained was from my patients and the sometimes simple or complex solutions they developed as a means of solving some of there own problems. All of that came from listening. I taught young Nurse Practitioners and learned so much from them even as I passed on my knowledge to my students. I preferred the NP’s because they were more adept at listening than medical students who already knew it all (They did not). Over the last 30 years of practice I was at Harvard every year for their CME because it’s excellent but my partners, colleagues, nurses, patients all taught me more. You can learn from anyone if you bother to listen.
If you are in college or graduate school and shout down a speaker, then the question has to be “Why the hell you even there?” Obviously not to learn.
The only way to deal with this is for state legislatures to demand action and results in public schools. Private schools need to do the same. The Federal government has the power of the purse but they will be no help for the next 2 years but we are a federal republic and we need to act like one. Expulsions should be the order of the day. Wreck some careers before they get started and you will get attention. Parents of college age students determine where the money and loans are paid. Focus on them.
Maybe actions like the Federal judge who decided to accept no more students from certain law schools should be encouraged in all businesses.
Individual decisions across the landscape can make a difference.
GEB,
Listening.
There is an interesting concept.
With the various people calling for curbing free speech, censorship, even declaring a possible national security threat, listening may only be permitted by one side.
All others must be silenced.
RE:”Progressives should learn the simple concept of keeping quiet ..”That is not their in their interest nor does it serve their agenda.
A few months ago Cornell’s President gave a half-hearted endorsement to the concept of free speech on campus, but then quickly added that those with other views have a right to free speech too. The word “respectful” never was mentioned. Not quite as open about it as NYU Professor Jeremy Waldron, but the message was obviously received by the thugs who still populate the Ithaca campus. The real test, of course, is what kind of “accountability” will be meted out to the disruptors. We will not know for months (if ever), but I predict some strong condemnation and ten hours of community service. I am sad to say I am also disappointed in the quick departure of Ann Coulter. I thought she was a fighter. Obviously she can’t stand toe-to-toe with a young punk and put him in his place. I am pretty confident that Nikki Haley, Kristy Noem, Margery Taylor-Greene or Sarah Huckabee Sanders (just to name a few) would have stood their ground.
WiseOldLawyer,
Regarding Coulter’s quick departure, I think based off the hostility of some, she may have in fear of a violent attack on her person.
I would not put it past these people. At some point they will act violently.
I’ve been reading a lot of ‘March For Our Lives’ David Hogg’s ‘Gen-Z’ yada yada on ‘Twitter’ these past 24 hours. Though I empathize deeply with him and others in our community who suffered the Stoneman-Douglas shooting, my take-away from his voluminous comments is that the purpose of their ‘movement’ apparently has goals far beyond those organizational stated publicly.. The residents in Florida’s 10th Congressional District just elected a former officer of that organization to their seat in D.C.,to succeed Val Demings. It is the MFOL’s intention to pursue this political line of action in the next cycle. If what we are reading here regarding Cornell is an example of what Hogg states as their pursuit of a more perfect world, then our Constitution, as presently constructed, is in peril from this lot. A revisiting of Communist China’s Cultural Revolution and its sequelae is in order. The citizenry of this nation should be aware. Though Maxwell Frost’s bio appears ‘interesting’ and appealing to many factions, he and those with whom he identifies, allies, and sympathizes, bears careful watching going forward.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Frost
ZZDoc,
Thank you for that insight.
These violent mobsters who hijacked the speech are preventing ME from hearing what I chose to hear. That is not free speech. They are violating MY civil rights to hear what I choose. This is as much an affront to me than the speaker. Now, I am prevented from hearing even a recording of the event. I was not there, I’m not a lawyer, but if I was there, I would gladly join or file any class action civil rights suit against those removed from the room and charged with crimes. The only way to stop this is to make them suffer – serious jail time, financial fines, whatever the law can create to prevent this attack on our constitution.
I think that any student taking away the rights of others should forfeit their right to be a student at that college. One strike and you are out. Depriving others of any of their constitutional rights is a serious offense.There should be warnings and posted on doorways to every event. Enforcement regardless of who, would bring a stop to this.
Having that professor say that shutting down a speech through heckling is free speech is the most Orwellian thing I have heard in…3 days.
Expelling these idiots would end this garbage in one semester. These are the morons who leave campus to go throw soup on a Van Gogh and they need to be punished for these actions. Treat them as if they were at the Capitol on Jan 6th and we would see the end of it.
One more point: Wouldn’t you have thought that after Paul Pelosi got attacked that the DOJ or the locals would have stopped the protests at Justices homes? Er excuse me, conservative Justices homes.
The only speech they want to hear is their approved speech.
All others must be silenced.
At some point, they will resort to violence.
Are you talking about a political leader that wants to lock up their political opponents, and only count the votes that they want counted? Are you talking about a political party that said next to nothing when a mob stormed our nations capitol, based on a known proven lie? Or maybe the ones who stand in state capitals with ar-15’s? Or maybe the ones who wear masks and are armed outside voter stations.
@FishWings: Your deflection off-topic indicates the “free speech” comments have hit upon the truth. You’re consistent in your predictable, nonsensical commentary.
I was replying to UpstateFarmer comment of resorting to violence. I wanted to know who “they” were.
“They” is their preferred pronoun. Duh.
Like Joe Biden has??
Yes, one party wants to only count legitimate votes from citizens cast on election day – as elections have been throughout history and much of the world. While the other party wants to be able to knock on couch potatoes doors, provide them with pre filled out ballots, and then take the ballots to the drop boxes for them.
The other party wishes to keep changin elections – usually without changing the law constantly until it can find the way that it will win.
YOU rant that everything should be “democracy” – Republicans still lead in the popular vote in this last election – an election conducted YOUR way – by 6M votes – far more than anyone expected – yet somehow as the ballots are counted they are doing much worse than expected.
There were several state wide razor thin elections this cycle – so far Democrats have won every single one.
In fact they have been beating the odds on close elections for a long time with an almost unbroken set of victories in razor thin elections.
If you flip a coin 20 times in a row and it always turns up heads – that is prima fascia evidence of cheating.
“Are you talking about a political party that said next to nothing when a mob stormed our nations capitol, based on a known proven lie?”
I am perfectly fine with the Kavanaugh protests.
“Or maybe the ones who stand in state capitals with ar-15’s?”
Fine with that.
Why is that a problem for you ? Did they shoot anyone ? Did they actually threaten anyone ?
They were concurrently excercising 1st and 2nd amendment rights.
“Or maybe the ones who wear masks and are armed outside voter stations.”
Fine with that too.
What I am not OK with is election officials bringing the DOJ and private security – many of whom are literally criminals, INSIDE election facilities to prevent legally authorized observers from doing their legally authorized job.
Get your FACTS straight.
Reality is NOT about spin.
Several elections ago – the courts decided that minority males carrying baseball bats outside of polling places was legal.
Just recently those on the left REQUIRED everyone to way face diapers.
If these things are wrong today – they were always wrong.
If they are OK for the left – they are OK for the right.
BTW the “masked” “armed” people were not outside polls, they were outside of drop boxes.
Which I think is great.
Often as a result the police also ended up sitting outside of drop boxes
which is ALSO great.
If those who engaged in disseminating false allegations of colluding with the Russians aka 4 plus years of Russiagate the Bigger Lie, spread by MSM, should they not be held accountable for their disseminating disinformation?
According to leftists standards they should.
It is okay by leftists standards to protest outside of SC Conservative Justices.
To shout down anyone they disagree with.
To riot, loot and arson as they did in 2020 for months on end.
That, is okay.
What is it that TiT says, if it were not for Doublestandism, Dems would not have any standards at all.
As I have noted here on this blog more than a few times, I did not vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. I am and have always been a registered Independent. I wish Trump would just go away quietly.
However, while there are those who insist that “democracy is in danger,” they are right. It is the Left who is endangering democracy. They want to subvert the Constitution, to undermind the norms, to censor and silence all those who dissent from their ideology.
They want a Mao like Cultural Revolution where they silence anyone who disagrees with them.
Is it projection?
Or is it reality?
You be the judge.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/11/fix-arizona-ballots-make-stop-runbeck-printing-company-scan-ballot-envelopes-sent-county-no-observers/
During his first term, against vicious, never-ending opposition from the left and his own party, Trump achieved gasoline under $2 a gallon, inflation at 2%, record low unemployment, decreased regulation of American industry, the elimination of NAFTA, the establishment of new trade agreements with Mexico and Canada, higher tariffs on products from China, the building of a wall on our southern border, a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration, decreased missile testing by North Korea, cancellation of the Obama nuclear agreement with Iran, recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, the brokering of historic trade agreements between Israel and its Arab neighbors, increased defense spending by the United States, increased defense spending by the other NATO members, no new wars, American energy independence, a welcoming environment in the Republican Party for good and decent Americans of all races and classes, the appointment of more than 200 federal judges who believe in following the Constitution, the appointment of three Supreme Court justices who believe in following the Constitution, and, after waiting 50 years, the overturning of Roe v Wade.
Miller, that’s nothing, and Trump spent 4 years doing it. Biden destroyed the nation in less than 2, wrecked the Constitution and has invovled the US in war and retreat. 🙂
“Or maybe the ones who wear masks and are armed outside voter stations.”
Nothing illegal about keeping the high watch over Democrat ballot (stuffing) boxes. Call it the Mule Watch. Somebody’s gotta do it since the election “officials” aka “gubment” is IN ON the SCAM.
“Are you talking about a political leader that wants to lock up their political opponents”
You mean the way Biden’s DOJ has targeted and locked up Trump supporters violating their civil rights?
“Are you talking about a political party that said next to nothing when a mob stormed our nations (cities)”
You mean the ones where BLM and Antifa rioters spent months violently looting businesses, rioting, burning, smashing windows, assaulting innocent citizens, assaulting cops, and utterly destroying black neighborhoods during what Democrats still refer to as the “summer of love” and “mostly peaceful protests”?
You mean the riots where not ONE word of the violence was mentioned during the Democrat National Convention that took place AT THE SAME TIME it was still going on!
Are you talking about Biden who began his campaign “based on a known proven lie?” And STILL tells the same damn lies with zero challenge or fact check or correction from the fake news media? You talking about Biden’s “known proven lies”?
I used to think the idea of a civil war was an impossibility.
Now, I think it is inevitable.
These fascists want free speech as long as it is their version of free speech.
Your projection is off the charts.
No projection at all.
The left is open about its fascism – “everything in the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”.
It is only the word, that you have problems with.
You have no problems BEING a fascist – just being identified as a fascist.
We see that alot from the left – you seek to FORCE people to identify you however you wish.
NOT as you are.
You want it to be a crime to call you a man, when that is your DNA,
You want people punised for calling you fascist – when that is what you are.
John Say,
Well said! And spot on!
I see Fish Wings and his kind for what they are. They want a Mao like Culture Revolution. They are itching for it. Just look at the videos of the Ann Coulter speaking at Cornell. And all the other anti-free speech proponents. As I said, at some point they will resort to violence. It is only a matter of time.
Cornell might just like Coulter, a woman who spends a great deal of her time trashing Trump.
INK (e.g.: Font) – Publish Your Views (in INK or Electronically in Font)
The Hecklers can not shout-out the INK. (indelible preferred)
It worked in the last Revolution, It will work in Today’s.
Our leading Educational institutions, working hard to keep students ignorantly of all, but the approved propaganda.
Afraid of being exposed to something different. Brings to mind a question. If they kids cant be exposed to anything outside the cultural silo, all those study abroad programs have to be cancelled.
Turley is silent about the mess that Musk has made of Twitter already.
Video here of the accounts that he gave blue marks to simply by their paying a fee, and that have spoofed companies and people: https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz/status/1591235348797231104
Eli Lilly’s stock market value tanked after a spoof.
Companies are leaving because of Musk’s choices.
Even the NY Post is condemning him:
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/Front-Cover-11-12-2022.jpg
https://nypost.com/2022/11/11/twitter-blue-launch-suspended-as-verified-account-impersonators-surge-report/
LOL, he verified a fake Jesus account.
Anonymous – who ever you are
With all due respect to a person who hides their identity behind a pseudonym, I disagree with your comment concerning “Twitter”.
As a twitter user, I appreciate the changes that Mr. Musk has made so far with twitter.
It is very important that everyone has a forum (such as twitter) to express their opinions.
Respectful Debate – Deliberate – Compromise is the only way to settle any issue.
“opinions” =/= “respectful debate”
And Musk is already talking about taking Twitter into bankruptcy because of all the debt he saddled it with and his mistakes driving advertisers away. Respectfully, the advertisers’ opinions matter more in whether it will flourish than yours does.
One cannot be sure of Twitter’s ability to survive, but Elon Musk is capable. People with a lot of extra cash can afford to spend money on a project that might fail or might win them many multiples of what they paid. They only need one investment to work out. It pays for the others plus profit
If your source is Taylor Lorenz, then you just might be an idiot.
We already know he is an idiot, this just confirms it.
A wonderful example of ad hom on your end. Either you are intellectually capable of focusing on the examples in the video or you aren’t. See if you can dispute the accuracy of even one example in that video.
Good morning Anonymous . . . you sound like someone who has never started, owned or run a business and probably never been in management. Let me help you . . . taking over a business with as many problems as Twitter has, will require the new owner to make many changes in his effort to provide a great service at a competitive price. Give the guy an opportunity to make those changes.
Musk was right, when he was saying that something is rotten with Twitter (Bots, etcetera etcetera) in the Pre-aquisition of Twitter.
Now the Mess comes to surface. Elon bought a Lemon, but he will make Lemon-aid out it !
Lea Kissner, the former CISO of Twitter, said they were looking forward to figuring out their next steps.
“I’ve made the hard decision to leave Twitter,” Kissner tweeted. “I’ve had the opportunity to work with amazing people and I’m so proud of the privacy, security, and IT teams and the work we’ve done.”
AND
Yoel Roth, Twitter’s head of integrity and safety, also resigned from the company on Thursday, according the Washington Post. In the days following Musk’s acquisition of the company, Roth emerged as a public voice explaining and defending some of the many changes that were being implemented. He joined Musk on a Twitter Spaces discussion on Wednesday to assuage concerns about the platform’s handling of harmful content amid the changes.
In other Words:
I have made a mess of this here and don’t really know how to clean-it-up [Fix-It],
Because the reality is I am not as technically adept at the programming and skills needed to have done this correctly to begin with.
So I have to go Home now. Bhe-Bye.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/10/tech/twitter-executives-resign/index.html
The Other bit if News I’ve read is Elizabeth Holmes sentence pleading.
(founder of Theranos Inc.)
In a Thursday night court filing, lawyers for Holmes asked that she receive 18 months of home confinement, followed by community service, at her Nov. 18 sentencing before U.S. District Judge Edward Davila in San Jose, California.
A Recap: [in Elizabeth Holmes voice]
Judge Davila, can I go Home and be ‘grounded’ for 18 months, and
do some community service thingy at the YWCA Swimming Pool?
Martha Stewart had more Guts and Bigger Balls than These idiots.
lol
Since when did the Monopoly game get a “Get Out of Prison because I’m Pregnant” Card?
Maybe She’s carrying Cory Booker’s Baby. Remind me … How much money did Theranos give the DNC?
Read:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11418831/Pregnant-Theranos-founder-Elizabeth-Holmes-includes-letter-support-Corey-Booker-avoid-jail.html
It’s Elon’s company and he is entitled to do what he wants. Why are we all up in a roar over whatever he does? He paid for it. If we bought it, we would think we are entitled to do what we want. Some things he changes may or may not work out. So what. You don’t know till you try. I think eventually, it will all settle down and be great.
Elon works hard at whatever he does. No big deal that he doesn’t know exactly what he wants. He did know that employees who sell blue check marks for $15,000 each needed firing. He knew that employees who do duplicate jobs to others weren’t needed. Yet, people are aghast that he fired them.
He needs employees who will work with him and want their jobs and be willing to do them however he wants them done. Hopefully, they will come to that spot and we, as the public, can give Elon the respect of not criticizing every move he makes as he learns about his new company.
@Wendy: Opinions are like @$$h0/#$, everyone has one. The criticisms comes from those who sit on the sidelines and do nothing but opine on those that dare to take a chance. They only reveal their ignorance. I, for one, look forward to his genius.
Anonymous: Turley’s blog is not about evaluating the business practices of Musk or anyone else. You really don’t get it.
GioCon, Turley has written over a dozen columns urging Musk to take over Twitter and describing what Turley wants Musk to do with Twitter. Apparently you’re unaware of how many column-inches Turley has already devoted to it. Here’s an example:
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/10/30/how-elon-musk-should-shape-twitter-sans-the-sink/
The cuddled who will refuse to defend the nation, how very courageous of them to interrupt a speaker.
Comments about the KKK coming from democrats never make sense to me. The KKK is and was a Democratic Party institution so I don’t understand. Are they saying no you can’t join us on the left? Until the left is honest about who they are deep down and historically we will forever be at each other’s throats. Just like all of the current woke anti-white racism that rages on the left will someday be viewed for the bigotry that it is, it will become the next layer in the Democratic Party history of shame. They are still the racists but can’t see it.
The mystery of why Progressives want to cancel and deny our nation’s history . . . has been solved!
These kids think the world began about the time they were born. They’re too busy with their Gender Studies to look at history.
RE:” They’re too busy with their Gender Studies to look at history.” There’s a strong possibility that the history/civics curricula in their grade/intermediate/and high school learnings had no where near the depth and breadth of that which those who were educated during the first 60 years of the 20th Century were exposed to. I believe the worm began to turn in 1960. ‘On the street’ interviews often featured on ‘talk show’ programming and some news/public affairs offerings have demonstrated an embarrassing deficiency in fundamental knowledge and information regarding affairs and history, both domestic and foreign, on the part of youth.
There is a reason that the average welder or trucker today shows a better grasp of the real world than the average college graduate.
Increasingly our schools and universities make our children less and less fit to be adults.
We used to send our children to college to become adults, and to become productive members of society.
Increasingly they come out toddlers, intent on destroying society.
This is not sustainable.
John Say,
Yet another “Well said!” comment.
The adults have left the universities. The children are the dominate power.
The question I have is how does this play out? An entire generation of useless eaters with degrees in DEI that really amounts to nothing constructive or adding to society? But we are to suppose they add value to society? In a word, No. If I owned a company, they would be the first to go. Aside division and hate, they do not add anything to the company.
How does this play out – badly.
One of the things not well grasped by the left is the difference between luxury goods and necescities.
Through history we turn wants into needs.
We only really need, food and shelter.
but over time what was a luxury – heat, becomes a necessity.
That is how free markets work.
That is why those on the left can talk about healthcare as a right – which is completely idiotic.
Regardless, this trend is very important – we ALWAYS pay more for luxuries,
they become much cheaper as they become commodities.
This applies to wages.
US GDP from blue cities is incredible – but it is nearly all for expensive luxuries.
That is not a bad thing.
We pay less for food than ever before. We pay less overall – though wages are higher, for goods produced by blue collar workers.
I would also note that blue collar wages are rising – because the jobs are in higher demand and because the productivity and skill level needed are much higher.
Regardless, when the economy takes a down turn – luxuries are what gets hit the worst.
Think about it – as the economy tightens – what changes are you going to make ?
I want to be careful – because I have simplified alot.
We know as an example that most STEM fields do not get hit hard in a recession.
But some productive people do get hit. We wait longer to buy a new car.
We build fewer homes.
Further Government is now something over 40% of the economy – it subsidizes massive amounts of unproductive people.
Regardless, in a recession – which is near certain – what gets hit hardest ? What gets hit least ?
Luxuries all tend to get hit the hardest – things we do not really need or can put off until tomorow.
Regardless, Gender studies graduates are not likely to do well when the economy is weak.
I would further note we are heading towards a recession – really already in it,
that we CAN NOT “stimulate” our way out of.
It is massive excess spending that Caused the inflation that requires this recession.
Biden – even republicans can want to “stimulate” the economy through spending.
But either:
The fed returns to monetizing debt – and inflation explodes.
or the do not – and the interest on the debt explodes consuming a significant portion of the federal budget
Barring magic we are between a rock and a hardplace right now.
When recession is your BEST choice – things are bad.
And again – what are you planning to tighten up on as the economy weakens ?
Agree about the economy and the wants vs needs.
I recently read about a guy commenting on how he in his field of IT with his coding knowledge and how he spends the day trying to figure out how to get people to click on a ad.
Do we really need things like Facebook, Twitter, etc.?
When things get tough, people will cut back on things. I read recently of people using buy now, pay later for groceries. And it is going to get worse.
I agree with your assessment about the Fed raising interest rates. I read some pundit said something to the effect,
“A recession will slay inflation!”
Nothing says good times like thousands out of a job, but inflation is down, right?
I commented in another article about I think we will get both a recession and inflation at the same time till the food and energy crisis are resolved. But I think that will take at least 2 years. Hope I am wrong.
Personally, we are doing okay. But then we are fairly prudent, do not spend money on luxuries, keep up to 6 months of savings on hand, and expect the farm, no debt. We have a hard time coming up with a Christmas list. Tax returns go towards home/farm improvements.
Unless we have a complete and total socio-economic collapse we are planning on weathering the recession well.
I want to be very careful – because the “rules” of economics are for the most part very simple.
But exactly how they play out in detail in the real economy is complex and only predictable in hind sight.
It is near certain that rising energy – and therefore food prices will result in global political instability – we have seen that repeatedly before.
Exactly how a recession will play out in the US is trickier.
We are already seeing social media stocks collapse. Zuckerberg’s net worth declined more in a week by a factor of almost 2 than Musk paid for twitter.
I do think it is reasonable that a recession will harm social media companies.
That does NOT mean there will be less people using social media.
Just that as people will be buying less, advertising will have less value.
Recessions tend to be very hard on businesses that were already in trouble.
We are already seeing serious cutbacks, changes, etc in the MSM
I mean really – Greg Gutfeld is the leading late night show ? Really ?
CNN is trying to figure out how to attract a broader audience.
Regardless, much of the MSM is in financial dificulties and that will only get worse.
While recessions ten to harm our wants more than our needs, that is not a binary.
It is entirely possible that people spend MORE on streaming services, and LESS or theater and movies and concerts.
Further people put off calls to plumbers or try to do it themselves in tough times.
But as a broad rule – in a recession those parts of the marketplace that are luxuries are hit harder than those that are necescities.
There are also other global complexities.
China is in all likelyhood in deep economic $hit right now.
But it oddly has near the opposite problems the US has.
China is likely entering a deep recesion – but a deflationary one, not an inflationary one.
And I have no idea how that factors into the global economy.
China is today approximately self sufficient for food – a vast improvement since 1974.
But as its economy winds down – and we are seeing that already, its energy demands drop and that effects global energy prices.
Russia is also in serious trouble – and that is really really dangerous to everyone.
Russia has been keeping its economy afloat in face of enormous sanctions by burning through its reserves.
It has been very successful at that so far – but that strategy has a clock on it, and if the clock runs out the economy collapses.
Europeans are praying for global warming right now. They are seeing the same recession for the same reasons as the US – only a bit worse.
Coupled with winter coming and an inability to provide adequate heat to 500M people.
I am hearing estimates of 10,000 people dying from cold in Europe this winter. That may sound low compared to covid,
But it is Tripple the GLOBAL # of deaths from extreme cold.
Further if people are dying from the cold, millions of people are just going to be cold as F#$K.
And the destruction of the Nordstream pipelines means – there is no hope of a solution. Even peace tomorow would not fix Europes problems.
There is no short term means that Europe can increase its supply of energy this winter sufficient to meat demand – that means european energy prices are going though the roof.
“ That is why those on the left can talk about healthcare as a right – which is completely idiotic.”
Why? Maintaining good health is not a necessity? You need it to keep your doing your job effectively and consistently. You need it to be productive and maintain a family. Who why wouldn’t healthcare not be a right? It is in other countries and they recognize it as a right. Here its’ a luxury according to you?
Healthcare is being used as a means to profit from those who need it the most. When countries who provide free or reduce cost healthcare that does not involve getting into deep debt just to stay alive or health have more productive free societies. We have society loaded with burn outs and overdressed unhealthy workers being pushed to by MORE productive for those who can afford the healthcare to stay healthier than them. Something is wrong with that picture.
Please, Please learn something before you post.
Is good healthcare a necessity ? Mostly No.
Humans have had crap healthcare for nearly all of human existance – we are still here – obviously it is not a necescity.
How long can you go without water ?
How long can you go without a physical ?
3 aspects of health care in the past 150 years have raised global life expectancy into the mid seventies as we are fully able to realize those.
Antiseptics, Antibiotics, and IV fluids.
Healthcare int eh US today is incredible – but it is a luxury good. And that is why it is incredibly expensive.
I need a car to keep your doing my job effectively and consistently. I need it to be productive and maintain a family. Why wouldn’t cars not be a right?
Your argument does not survive reductio ad absurdem.
I would note that food, shelter – even water are not rights – and you need them far more than healthcare.
Actually needing something – you are unable to distinguish between wants and needs, does not make it a right.
ANYTHING that imposes a duty to act on others is NOT a right.
It is constantly self evident you do not live in the real world. That you think you can just make up rules and aparently rights however you you wish.
A right is something you are free to do, NOT something you are obligated to be provided with.
You have no right to food, shelter, water – much less healthcare. You provide those for yourself or rely on the charity of others.
Regardless, they are not rights.
You have an actual right to speak as you please – others have no obligation to listen.
Your right to speak imposes no duty or burden on others.
Humans have spent 150,000 years learning all of this.
It is not made up. It is discovered truth. It is what actually works.
You are being pushed to be more productive because that is the ONLY means to raise standard of living.
Standard of living is tautologically
more of what humans want and need for less human effort.
If you become an adult and take a job flipping burgers and never get any better at that job – then you are NEVER worth more, you are not more productive, you should not be paid more and your standard of living should never rise.
If you spend your life flipping burgers and never get better at it or anything else, but your standard of living rises – you are benefiting at someone elses expense.
One of the fundimental truths is Gen 3:19 – by the sweat of your brow you shall have your daily bread.
If you do not produce – you are either dead or a parasite.
Absent energy all systems decay towards chaos.
What is wrong with so many pictures you create, is that you presume to be entitled.
If you want better healthcare – you get that by working for it.
You have the right to strive for more. No one owes it to you.
Why are you arguing something so fundamentally wrong – genesis disposes of it in the 3rd chapter ?
What you want – including healthcare you must work for, or you die.
It is not owed you
What your vastly oversimplified view of markets fails to understand is the value judgement placed upon what is ‘luxury’ versus what is a ‘commodity’ and the widely varied emotions inherent in those judgements.
I actively trade commodity markets on a daily basis, and anyone who does so realizes emotions drive markets. And those who trade them institutionally absolute prey upon those with the ‘market’ ideas you’ve just expressed here. They’re archaic. My guess is you don’t trade markets, or if you do, you regularly get spanked. Your mindset is the dumb money funds seek to lure into markets as a way to create liquidity.
“What your vastly oversimplified view of markets fails to understand is the value judgement placed upon what is ‘luxury’ versus what is a ‘commodity’ and the widely varied emotions inherent in those judgements.”
Not at all. Real world free markets factor every single thing you address in. Absolutely markets are about “value judgements”.
When we do things through government – value for all of us is decided by a few elites.
When we do things through free markets, hose markets take as inputs the subjected and objective and emotional judgement of everyone.
“I actively trade commodity markets on a daily basis, and anyone who does so realizes emotions drive markets.”
No emotions are AMONG the factors that drive markets.
BTW – fine you play in commodity markets – you also go to the grocery store, buy gas make choices about whether to buy or rent.
Whether to buy furniture or go to the movies.
ALL of that is participation in free markets – your commodity trading is just a tiny part of actual free markets.
Almost everything we do that is not through government is participation in free markets.
” And those who trade them institutionally absolute prey upon those with the ‘market’ ideas you’ve just expressed here. They’re archaic. My guess is you don’t trade markets, or if you do, you regularly get spanked. Your mindset is the dumb money funds seek to lure into markets as a way to create liquidity.”
You are obviously trapped in a bubble. First – I did not mention commodity trading or institutional trading – though those are part of the free market, they are a small part.
As to myself – I am reasonable well off – could be better, certainly could be much worse. The entirety of my net worth is the product of my choices in the free markets. Whether it is because I engaged in commodity trading or built a profitable business – it is all free markets.
You are off in lala land. You claim my views are Archaic – but everytime you buy gas or groceries or go to the theater – you prove me right.
Your thinking inside a narrow silo – and likely wrong even there.
Next – I did not provide you with any advice regarding your own free market conduct.
My remarks had little if anything to do with your day trading niche.
Frankly they had little to do with Warren Buffett trading.
I did not tell you or anyone else what their values should be, only that the market as a while – not one slice of it,
Will more accurately reflect the values of all of us, than anything else ever conceived.
I am doing fine. Like everyone else in the world I am a participant in the relatively free market.
I am not however some comodities Day trader – That is A MARKET, not THE FREE MARKET.
I personally participate in many markets, and I am doing fine.
I find it odd that you confused day trading in some stock or financial market with the infinitely larger free market.
I would also note that it is not my view that is simplified – it is yours. Though you are correct that trading in commodities is a particular narrow skill, it is also a small part of the free market – and very near the center. It would be wise to remember that as Coase and myriads of economists have noted, in economics everything important happens at the margins. Whether you realize it or not – commodity trading is driven by the free choices of those dupes making choices in the grocery store.
I did not propose some binary between luxury and commodity. I did not even use commodity – at least not paired with luxury.
I refereed to the spectrum between necessities and luxuries. A recession results in most of us reducing consumption and therefore production – those effects will be most strongly felt in some of what most ordinary people see as often attainable luxuries.
When many of us are reduced to consumption of only the most critical necessitates – we call that a depression.
Luxuries are those things we pay a premium for when our necessities are met – and usually affordably.
They are also the things we do not purchase at all – when we have difficulty securing necessities.
Necessities are the least valued goods when they are abundant and the most when they are not.
Luxuries are the most valued goods when necessities are abundant and the least when they are not.
The left forgets that blue collar jobs have significantly increased in pay over the past 40 years – but they have also become much more demanding. I have a freind whose son is an electrician – he is doing incredibly well – more than my son will manage with a computer science degree when he graduates, and he got there quickly – just a few years. He runs his own truck for a franchise. He does his own cost estimates for jobs, he purchases materials, and he must know and conform to the NEC inside and out.
This is not a college job, but it is a high skill demanding job that only is well paid if you are productive.
Who do you think is more capable of understanding the complex mess that is our elections – or climate change or pretty much any issue –
Someone from Journalism school, or someone with the skills that a modern electrician requires ?
We talk about the culture war, the left talks about racism and discrimination.
But what we really have increasingly is a class war between an increasingly high skilled working class, and and increasingly low skilled set of elites.
Again I am over simplifying, the lines are not black and white.
Frankly the luxury vs. necessity distinction is more black and white.
Communications majors are not a necescity.
Plumbers are.
My real pointy is that the dividing line that USED to exist where college grads are universally better educated and more knowledgeable than non-college grads is not so present any more.
We gradulate too many highly educated people from college – who understand nothing of value to the real world.
And increasingly we have working class people with increasingly demanding jobs who understand very important real world constructs.
I found the Fetterman/Oz conflict fascinating. Those on the left think Oz is unqualified ?
Someone who has been incredibly successful in MULTIPLE areas of life ?
Certaintly there are a few people who might be better qualified to be a US Senator than Oz – but NOT MANY.
His background is PRECISELY what you want where you need people who can grasp myriads of different complex subjects.
Conversely Fetterman has not really succeeded at ANYTHING in life – he is a beautiful example of the upward failure of those on the left.
He did nothing for a long time, was a pretty poor mayor, got a no show job as LT Gov. were he accomplished nothing good.
at best he might have been charasmatic at one time – he certainly not anymore.
If you want to tell me that someone would make a better Senator than Oz – there certainly are people.
But Fetterman clearly is not one.
There is some discussion that the GOP candidates in the 2022 election were “inferior”.
Compared to who ? Certainly not their opponents.
John B. Say, it’s interesting that you don’t see why Oz did not win.
Oz had zero experience as a politician and that requires a certain amount of knowledge to be an effective one at least. Fetterman had experience even if it was just being a Mayor of a small town. He knew what it takes to be a public servant Oz didn’t. His missteps and bad campaigning reinforced the point that Oz was not qualified.
Oz is also a college educated individual who understands complex and nuanced issues but he still wasn’t qualified to be a politician. Fetterman was exactly what you describe when comparing plumbers and electricians as more in tune to reality. He has been in the game and brings mayor of a small town which allowed him to be closer to his constituents gave him a firm grasp of reals economics and politics. Republicans only focused on his disability which only involved speech not mental ability or competence. Clearly many of those plumbers and electricians who voted recognized it. Pretty ironic .
“Oz had zero experience as a politician”
Correct.
We were electing someone to be Senator – not politician.
Only a moron wants someone running their lives who have never demonstrated the ability to run their own.
Your post is evidence of your own stupidity.
Fetterman clearly was too stupid to manage his own healthcare – he had a stroke because he excercised poor judgement regarding his own health.
Only a moron would allow Fetterman to make judgements that impact Their healthcare.
Your free to do so for yourself – not others.
Those like you who seek to impose their poor choices on others by FORCE are immoral.
Our founders barely payed congress – public service – meant giving your back your time and effort for FREE.
People did not graduate from school and go right into politics – they had to ear a living – successfully before they could afford public service.
Today – because of idiots like you no one has to succeed in the real world before they can can impose their will on the rest of us by force.
Because of those like you – people like Fetterman graduate from college, never learning anything about the real world, and incrementally fail up – getting richer off the public. We have millionaires in congress who have never earned a penny in the real world.
Your literally bringing back a twisted version of the aristocracy – graduate – get elected and rule others.
The only skill you need is – getting elected.
No Fetterman is Not in tune with reality.
He has ZERO experience with reality.
His experience is with politics and government – and it is not even as if he actually did well in government.
The very fact that YOU think fetterman is a good choice is proof of what is wrong today.
I would note – Fetterman was NOT the choice of the plumbers. I doubt he was the choice of doctors either.
He was the choice of underwater basket weaving majors who are clueless about the real world.
Government is NOT economics – it is ANTI-Economics.
Have you learned nothing from the past two years ?
Inflation did not happen by accident. It occured because POLITICIANS – people exactly Like Fetterman pissed away $7T of money for nothing.
That money is sloshing arround the economy causing inflation.
We got little or no value for it.
And we will ultimately have to work our asses off to repay it.
It is PRECISELY the economic idiocy that these people you admire gave us that has ruined a perfectly good economy.
Worse still – the economic skills of YOUR politiicans will Burn us Thrice with this one mistake.
We got little or nothing from this spending except inflation,
We must pay it back later.
We will have a recssion to clear the inflation it has caused.
And you want MORE people like that ?
If you have not actually created real jobs in the real world. You are not qualified to manage a country (or a city).
Fetterman was never competent. – Before his stroke.
No Republicans did not focus on the disability – which actually does effect him cognitively.
Go look up the MOCA test – that is a test for cognative function. You can find it online.
It is not a secret test, you can not study for it.
Fetterman would clearly do poorly on it.
His “disability” is more than a speach and hearing impediment – he is cognatively damaged.
That is important – but equally important is the fact that he did this to himself.
He was diagnosed with heart arrhythmia which is easily treated. But without treatment frequently leads to stroke.
Fetterman made the POOR choice not to treat it, and as a result has a debilitating stroke.
Strokes are not predictable. Many people have strokes no one notices. Some have strokes with physical consequences. Some cause mental deficits. Anything that can result from damage to the brain is possible.
Sometimes – especially with younger people there can be partial of nearly complete recovery.
Often there is no recovery, and often there is further decline.
Fetterman appears to be declining. I watched video of him speaking shortly after the stroke, and more recently
He is declining – not improving.
Regardless, Fetterman is a perfect demonstration of the narcisism and bad judgement of the left.
He mad a bad choice with his own health. He paid a high price. Then he made a bad choice continuing.
Pennsylvania deserves a senator capable of understanding what is being said thinking coherently and expressing himself coherently.
Fetterman was all about him – repeatedly. Democrats made a very poor choice with him.
And the state and the nation will suffer.
Our standard of living will continue to stagnate – decline, so long as people like you think putting people like Fetterman in power is a good idea.
ZZDoc: You are correct about the 1960s. And we can look at the pervasive distribution of Howard Zinn’s “hate America history” for starters.
Typical progressive stupidity.
The fascists need to be punished by the school, and maybe expelled. This is ridiculous. They need to grow up, and face reality. This isn’t how you act in the real world. IF they can’t handle it, maybe they are too ignorant to go to college. Suspend them now.
Keep fighting the good fight Professor
Hear! Hear!
Parents of high school students can make a difference by encouraging their children to choose a university that advocates and fosters free speech environments. Last week I saw a video of Ben Shapiro speaking before a crowd of a few thousand students in a large auditorium at Texas A&M regarding topics considered controversial in today’s political climate. Not a single interruption occurred at the event other than applause. Shapiro announced a Q&A would follow at the beginning of his remarks and eventually would take all comers. He asked that those who were critical of his remarks be given advantage in the cue. This is what constructive education looks like. These engagements enrich. So help your child choose a post-secondary educational experience wisely. When consumers start taking their purchases elsewhere, the administrators will change or suffer extinction.
RE:”Parents of high school students can make a difference..’ A list has been compiled of such institutions and is available for review. I sent it to my grandchildren who are preparing for college admissions. rankings.thefire.org