Speaking to the graduating class of U.S. Naval Academy, President Barack Obama told the graduates that the best way to protect our nation is to stand up to its principles. I discussed the detainee issue last night on this segment of Countdown.
President Obama stated: “We uphold our fundamental principles and values not just because we choose to, but because we swear to — not because they feel good, but because they help keep us safe, . . . When America strays from our values, it not only undermines the rule of law, it alienates us from our allies, it energizes our adversaries and it endangers our national security and the lives of our troops.”
If only the White House would match its actions to its rhetoric, this country would be able to regain our moral and legal leadership in this troubled world. He needs to guarantee a trial for all detainees and to investigate the U.S. torture program.
For the story, click here.
“Mespo72 and Mike Spindell,
Shame on you both, you have revived the wicked witch…Catty Pee.”
“Jill,
BVM did not mention a thing about Obama’s race.”
FFLEO,
I understand that Patty C. attacked you and viciously, so I can understand why you feel as you do, as would I in the same situation. As to Patty C.’s personal attacks on people, I have personally chastised her for them in the past (I’ll find the links if you want) and would in the future. She plain goes overboard on people, past reasonable boundaries. However, Jill in her way also goes overboard. I have been accused by her of personal attacks, as was Mespo on this thread. I clearly explained to her the difference between personal attacks and being critical of one’s position. In her response to me today regarding Mespo and in her response to me on another thread regarding what she called my “personal attacks,” she never once addressed my points except to say that I was wrong.
She has a habit of doing this, as she has in my opinion a habit of using sources that agree with her (or that she agrees with) and passing it off as fact. While in no way could she be termed a troll, some of these actions mimic the troll-like behavior we’ve seen, except in their case they present sources who believe in what they believe.
As far as personal attacks go calling BVM a racist, as you noted was uncalled for. I have personally attacked BVM for her/his hyperbolic positions and yes did engage in personal attacks like calling BVM an idiot, but in all he/she has written on this blog no racism is at all evident. I have also clearly stated why I did attack him/her intentionally by stating my reasons. What I find so interesting is that BVM cites many of the same sources that Jill does, although takes the reasoning way over the top. Jill may decry personal attacks, but this is clearly a case where she engaged in one gratuitously.
If I made a statement like:”FFLEO allows his conservative feelings to influence his viewpoint” this would not be a personal attack, merely a personal observation of my impression of your behavior. I’m using a “for instance” that I don’t believe as a example, since I think you have one of the most open minds on this site. However, a statement like “FFLEO is a conservative so that means he’s a fascist” (fat chance)is a personal attack. I don’t believe Jill sees that distinction, or perhaps she pretends not to.
CCD,
I may read a lot of different cites and site. I however rarely comment on the same. I figure if people want to rant that is the place. If people want to express different ideal and still be respected for their opinion then this is the place. Although we have some on the list that cannot seem to differentiate between personal opinions and facts. And we have some on this list that regard anything but what they say as hostile words ready to incite a fight and we have Trolls that are fun. They don’t offend me as it is a check on what I think and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. But at the end of the day, most of us can turn it off and get a good night sleep.
I do have one golf ball, that is going to get a little unraveled. There is absolutely no need for personal attacks on the site. No need for playground antics, no need to kick sand in your eyes, no reason to play teachers pet, no need for a lotta crap that is said here which is directly attacking someone personally rather than their ideal. This is not the place for it. I said it again. Maybe FF LEO and others feel the same way they will chime in. I have been attacked personally I can respond in words that really do have more meanings that a dictionary.
CCD,
I think the ruling stinks worse than the Circus de Cheney.
AY:
You didn’t leave a comment at AllGov either.
Any thoughts about Wilson/Plame Vs US?
Too Bad Mespo72Cubed is not here but QBacking someplace in VA. I am sure he would tell it like it is. Ah, but is he an original Turlee? Patty C, are you smitten with the Professor? Come on admit it. Thats the first step?
Patty C,
Your BS meter goes off when ever you see someone you disagree with or don’t care for or want to attack and then are a B*T*H to them. Ok, Golf Ball?
My BS meter just went off again.
Jill refuses to engage with me, because it would require having to admit she doesn’t really ‘know’ what she is talking about, regardless of how many sources she has lined up in the effort to support her predetermined ‘position’.
Of course, this is my long running standard and repeated objection to her endless ‘cut n’ posts’.
It so happens that mespo and Mike S. agree with me.
What are you going to do about it?
Obama Justice Department Sides with Cheney in Valerie Plame Case
Friday, May 22, 2009
Valerie Plame (photo: Hunter Kahn)
One day before President Barack Obama and former Vice-President Dick Cheney gave dueling speeches criticizing each other’s national security policies, the Obama administration supported Cheney in a lawsuit filed against him by former CIA agent Valerie Plame. Plame was caught up in the criticism that was directed at the Bush administration by her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, who publicly questioned the U.S. grounds for attacking Iraq in 2003. Plame’s identity, kept secret as part of her intelligence work, was leaked to conservative columnist Robert Novak—in an attempt to get back at Wilson, Plame has contended in a lawsuit first filed in 2006. The suit is directed at those whom Plame claims were behind her outing to Novak: Cheney; former White House senior adviser Karl Rove; former Chief of Staff to the Vice President I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby Jr.; and former Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage.
Plame’s lawsuit has been dismissed twice by lower courts, forcing her to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Justice Department under President Barack Obama asked the high court on Wednesday not to consider Plame’s appeal, saying “further review is unwarranted.”
Libby was eventually convicted on charges of lying to a grand jury investigating the leak of Plame’s identity,al though he served no time in jail because President George W. Bush commuted his prison sentence.
Mike Spindell 1, May 23, 2009 at 10:16 am
I agree with this he was asking what brought her to make that statement and you stated:
“Mespo did not attack you personally. He did attack your sourcing, as do I.”
I don’t disagree with this as this is your Opinion as well:
“You present news stories from sources that could be based on someone’s personal bias and from media that has its’ own axe to grind.”
I agree with this: “Argue your case all you want”
I disagree with this:
“but nobody has yet personally attacked you on this particular thread.”
Patty C 1, May 23, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Exactly…
—–
Touchdown!
I think the attack was made Mike S., You may not see it but I do.
Jill,
I like you too. Patty C. Can you hear this? I like you too. Heck I even like the trolls, Patty C are you really one? They are fun to play with. Kind of like the unwrapping a Golf Ball. Have you ever done that? Takes time but you can get down to the Hard Core. Do you hear me Patty C?
rafflaw,
Thank you. On his blog, Paul Krugman mentioned a person with whom he could have “honest disagreements”. We should have honest disagreements with each other when it is the case that we don’t see eye to eye. I always value your ideas and opinions as well.
Jill,
I don’t care what anyone else says, I like and enjoy your links. I don’t always agree with them, but I always find them interesting and pertinent.
Who said this?:
“On all of these matters related to the disclosure of sensitive information, I wish I could say that there is a simple formula,” Obama said. “But there is not. These are tough calls involving competing concerns, and they require a surgical approach. But the common thread that runs through all of my decisions is simple: we will safeguard what we must to protect the American people, but we will also ensure the accountability and oversight that is the hallmark of our constitutional system. I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable. I will deal with Congress and the courts as co-equal branches of government. I will tell the American people what I know and don’t know, and when I release something publicly or keep something secret, I will tell you why.”
Interesting that he won’t talk about or show a real birth certificate, and never has.
By the way, can anyone tell me what agency or commission checks candidates for eligibility? Can you, Jonathan?
Didn’t think so. It doesn’t exist.
What’s the purpose of having Article 2 if we don’t or can’t check candidates eligibility?
Mespo72 and Mike Spindell,
Shame on you both, you have revived the wicked witch…Catty Pee.
How utterly predictable was that.
Exactly…
—–
mespo727272 1, May 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Jill:
“…he’s already needlessly put our troops in harms way, not to mention all the civilians we have killed, some using white phosphorus, while failing to equip our own people (see NY Review of Books on Afghanistan).”
****************
“I think you’re on the kool-ade again Jill. You bought the far left’s assessment without any critical analysis. By doing this you are rendering Patty C’s assessments of you very prescient. There are numerous explanation for the only reported proof, so-called “unusual burns,” and even more uncertainty over how they got them. Here’s one from a more reputable source:..
…Critical analysis means being critical of your own impressions first and then realizing that you can be manipulated as well as the next guy. It’s facts, facts, facts, not wild-eyed supposition. Even the treating doctors don’t allege the US caused these burns…”
and
Mike Spindell 1, May 23, 2009 at 10:16 am
Jill,
…”Mespo did not attack you personally. He did attack your sourcing, as do I. You present news stories from sources that could be based on someone’s personal bias and from media that has its’ own axe to grind. They may be right or they may be wrong, but they are opinions and not facts because Amy Goodman says they are. While I like her more than the MSM she is not pristine in her judgments. Argue your case all you want, but nobody has yet personally attacked you on this particular thread.”
Touchdown!
When it comes down I am thinking the example of the Nuremberg Trials, only bigger …. Washington Trials.
“A War Criminal cannot legally be president of the U.S. He should not have been on the ballots. Obama is a War Criminal, has been for years. I refer you to his voting records as senator. Funding Wars of Aggression is a War Crime. Obama and Biden are major conspirators in U.S. War Crimes.”
Well, if voting for any war funding is a war crime and excludes one from being President, you’ve pretty much eliminated every member of Congress. If voting for war funding is a war crime, then I assume voting for people who voted for war funding is a war crime, so there goes just about every American who has voted for a successful House Rep/Senator/President. I’m willing to wager that is a pretty solid chunk of the American public, so I guess I’ll go ahead and toss my hat in the ring for the new presidential election once you put all these people on trial.
rosemorals:
It’s Tyranny. Coverd here:
http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr18.htm
Thanks to Bob, Esq. for the John Locke lesson.
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/05/20/darwinian-dilemma-scientists-see-fossil-as-missing-link-while-creationist-scientists-see-old-dead-monkey/#comment-54736
Jill,
BVM did not mention a thing about Obama’s race.
Jill:
FFLEO is correct, giving thanks is not necessary. Standing up to ones tribe
(Turley Salon / Saloonitics) takes courage. I’m appreciative for the links, Jon Boone reporting for the Guardian in Kabul and the Jeremy Scahill interview.